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  1. #121

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    In certain NAGA divisions you recieve a ceremonial sword when you win.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Bullshido - No BS MMA mobile app

  2. #122

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    What I'm saying is that quite a few of these stories involve NAGA champions, most likely because NAGA sends people flying up the divisions as fast as they can go. When the "legit" black belts start going down, the Brazilians get cranky, drama happens.

    On the other hand, if you look at the IBJJF structure, you'll see that there is no rank mobility, eliminating that conflict in the first place. You're not even there if you're not "legit" and if you are there, you're exactly where they put you. It's a culture clash.

  3. #123

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I should also point out that this raises a procedural issue; that of the presumption of guilt. Now, in my eyes, not all of these guys are guilty. That's absurd. If we start every thread with the idea that the holder of the paperwork is in the wrong, and not the provider or the evaluator, we're inherently biased.

    So prove that this guy is up to no good and that it's not the standard lineage nonsense.

  4. #124
    solves problems with violence supporting member
    Ming Loyalist's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by The Villain View Post
    I should also point out that this raises a procedural issue; that of the presumption of guilt. Now, in my eyes, not all of these guys are guilty. That's absurd. If we start every thread with the idea that the holder of the paperwork is in the wrong, and not the provider or the evaluator, we're inherently biased.

    So prove that this guy is up to no good and that it's not the standard lineage nonsense.
    well, i don't see a lot of people in this thread presuming guilt, for the most part people are asking questions and following up on what is said (as it should be.)

    i think when someone makes claims that are questionable, then that should raise suspicions and cause more questions to be asked. for instance, claiming that the lineage goes back to rolls gracie is certainly *possible*, but it would also be an attractive claim for someone looking to falsify a lineage (rolls being dead makes it hard to ask him, however they might not know enough about him to know that he promoted very few black belts.) so such a claim should be investigated (not assumed to be a lie) but it should also raise red flags, and signal the need for further scrutiny. combine that with judo ranks that are also from dead/retired/difficult to locate sources, and we start to have a story that is getting *harder* to believe (note i didn't say it's a lie.)

    look, i get that you're mad at the IBJJF, and that you are a legit high end grappler who got the raw deal from those guys. i get it, you're not the only one. OK, but you have to recognize that because of your situation being out there, *some* scam artists are going to use it as a defense of their lies, and just saying "yeah, what happened to the villain is what happened to me!!" isn't going to be good enough. it *can't* be good enough if we are going to continue to try to out frauds. i also think that you showing up and saying "I'll vouch for this guy" is counter productive to the thread, since i don't think that you know him/have rolled with him/can actually vouch for his skills (please correct me if i am wrong) but you are vouching for the fact that the IBJJF is a fucked up corrupt org, not that this guy is actually legit.

    i think there should be more of a movement in the BJJ community to establish a truly non-profit ranking authority/federation/NGB that can be above all this bullshit. if people want BJJ belts to have any meaning in 10 years, they are going to have to get together as a community and figure out a way to do quality control. until such a thing exists, we have to use what we have (as flawed as it is) and so for the moment, if a gym owner is claiming a BJJ black belt, it should be verifiable through the IBJJF, or through a known legit instructor who chooses to not affiliate with the IBJJF. if they can't do so then they should probably claim that they teach submission grappling or jujutsu or something else.
    "Face punches are an essential character building part of a martial art. You don't truly love your children unless you allow them to get punched in the face." - chi-conspiricy
    "When I was a little boy, I had a sailor suit, but it didn't mean I was in the Navy." - Mtripp on the subject of a 5 year old karate black belt
    "Without actual qualifications to be a Zen teacher, your instructor is just another roundeye raping Asian culture for a buck." - Errant108
    "Seriously, who gives a **** what you or Errant think? You're Asian males, everyone just ignores you, unless you're in a krotty movie." - new2bjj

  5. #125

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    I agree, scam artists will attempt to sneak in and claim someone else did it. However, lets be serious, this was stated before the guy even hit the thread:

    Should we invite him into the thread yet or wait? My BS senses are tingling all over.

    I want to here this guy try to weasel out of this crap.


    But that could be dinner.
    That's MABS?

    What I'm vouching for here is that this guy's lineage and such being all fucked up isn't indicative of any wrong doing on his part. In fact, I haven't seen anything that has indicated wrong doing or fraud on his part. Does anyone know that he doesn't know these arts? They're not exactly rare.

  6. #126
    solves problems with violence supporting member
    Ming Loyalist's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by The Villain View Post
    I agree, scam artists will attempt to sneak in and claim someone else did it. However, lets be serious, this was stated before the guy even hit the thread:



    That's MABS?
    i totally agree, that post should have been culled. did you report it? the mods do a great job, but they are human and rely on the rest of us to report posts that they miss.


    What I'm vouching for here is that this guy's lineage and such being all fucked up isn't indicative of any wrong doing on his part. In fact, I haven't seen anything that has indicated wrong doing or fraud on his part. Does anyone know that he doesn't know these arts? They're not exactly rare.
    i don't think there's any indication of wrong doing on his part, but he did make some rank claims, and his answers to questions about those claims have led to further questions.

    i think that if he had been more calm in his responses, then he might have had an easier time, as we have seen over and over (i've been here for 10 years and i think you have been at least that long) that the investigation subjects who are loudest and angriest, often have something to hide.

    personally i'm interested in hearing what matt is going to be able to dig up from the boston judo community. if no one has heard of the guy who gave him his judo black belt, are you going to be more or less suspicious?
    "Face punches are an essential character building part of a martial art. You don't truly love your children unless you allow them to get punched in the face." - chi-conspiricy
    "When I was a little boy, I had a sailor suit, but it didn't mean I was in the Navy." - Mtripp on the subject of a 5 year old karate black belt
    "Without actual qualifications to be a Zen teacher, your instructor is just another roundeye raping Asian culture for a buck." - Errant108
    "Seriously, who gives a **** what you or Errant think? You're Asian males, everyone just ignores you, unless you're in a krotty movie." - new2bjj

  7. #127
    It is Fake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Villain View Post


    That's MABS?
    i totally agree, that post should have been culled. did you report it? the mods do a great job, but they are human and rely on the rest of us to report posts that they miss.
    Through 2005-2009 Yep. If a certain poster's comments were still VISIBLE we'd see similar comments still sitting in MABS. As to procedures, same applies. Many threads were started with a presumption of guilt. Quite a few times, I was accused of protecting someone when I dissented.

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