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  1. #491
    DerAuslander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Baltimore, MD
    If we do not let them speak, if we do not let them brand themselves, then how will we know that they are *insert evil group here*?

    We won't.

    Until they actually do act.

    Then it will be too late.

  2. #492

    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Muay thai - Kickboxing
    Not the first neo nazi to fight in M-1.

  3. #493
    Hiro Protagonist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by u1ysses View Post
    Well, Rafael, I think the big difference here involves our underlying legal philosophy. This is demonstrated pretty strongly with this statement:

    You seem to think (and correct me if I'm wrong, I don't want to incorrectly represent your views) that when someone performs an act of hate speech, they have done something wrong and should face justice for their actions, meted out by the government.

    I think that when someone performs an act of hate speech, they have done something wrong, and such behavior should be socially stigmatized, but not punished through the government. This is because I subscribe to the school of moral and legal philosophy that says [1] people can do things I think are wrong if there is no demonstrable material harm from what they have done, and [2] if restrictions are imposed on such behaviors, there must be reason to believe that the law would be structured in such a way as to curtail the problem, rather than allowing it to continue in secret.

    You can't make it illegal for people to think things or whisper them to others in confidence for practical reasons, and the fundamental problem is not, for me, that people let us know through speech that they are neo-Nazis, but that they think they are and should act in accordance with such misguided principles.

    I agree that they pose a danger, I just disagree that restricting speech does anything helpful, and I am uncomfortable with the idea that we take early action in locking up people who say such things. I believe you will find a parallel with that thought and the reasoning behind 'pre-emptive' strikes in international military law.

    Anyways, I'm not naive enough to think this will be resolved in an internet discussion, but i feel better having hit the fundamental point of disagreement, if my interpretation of your statements on this is correct.

    Hi ulysses and you others - lamentably, time for a radical cut. Got exams this week, will not be able to post long answers any more for a couple of days.

    - Thank you for the good discussion so far,
    I hope we can continue with it soon.

  4. #494
    Matt Phillips's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Lauren Southern Poverty Law Center
    Quote Originally Posted by Rafael View Post
    ...And that is the point why Europeans are sensible to fascist ****,
    and look to control it whenever possible.
    Treating the symptoms instead of the disease. The root cause is pride of place, and the politics of blood and soil identity.

    Tony Halme's party in Suomi-Finland is called the "True Finns". Get it?

    One thing we do not have in America is Nazi politics.
    Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie

    KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

    In De Janerio, in blackest night,
    Luta Livre flees the fight,
    Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
    Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!

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