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  1. #11
    It is Fake's Avatar
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    Jan 2005
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Rusher View Post
    Aw, c'mon, IIF. This is perfect form:

    YouTube - mifune, o guruma

    I think your point is better made by Tom's observation from that YouTube comment thread: the more equal two players are, the more likely their techniques will look "sloppy" compared to drilling. Even so, one does sometimes see "perfect," as in absolutely textbook, ippon throws in Olympic-level Judo.
    No, my point is Perfect is a dumb word. Precise is better IMO. That's all I'm saying.

    If we could talk to mifune he would most likely tell us of all the flaws in that video. No, I don't see them but, I bet he would.

  2. #12

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    So, this post hasn't gone very far...hmmmmm, wonder why?

  3. #13

    Join Date
    Apr 2009

    so much hate

    Quote Originally Posted by Kintanon View Post
    [/color][/i]I hate this statement and I hate people who make it. I've said it before, Martial Arts is for smashing people. If you want self development and self awareness go meditate. Meditation and Martial Arts, while peripherally related, are not the same thing. They do not go hand in hand, one is not a requirement for the other.

    Fucking hell...
    Wow, so much hate, I can see why you might want to smash people.

    Of course, I personally believe the word "Art" in Martial Art makes it more than fighting. Otherwise, wouldn't we save our breath and just say fighting.

    Even a quick check of Wikipedia finds this:

    "Martial arts are systems of codified practices and traditions of training for combat. While they may be studied for various reasons, martial arts share a single objective: to physically defeat other persons and to defend oneself or others from physical threat. In addition, some martial arts are linked to beliefs such as Hinduism, Buddhism, Daoism, Confucianism or Shinto while others follow a particular code of honour. Many arts are also practised competitively, most commonly as combat sports, but may also take the form of dance."

    Webster defines it as: any of several arts of combat and self defense (as karate and judo) that are widely practiced as sport

    Hmmm, wonder why none of them use your definition, guess "you are smarter" than everyone else.

  4. #14

    Join Date
    Apr 2009

    Not lost

    Quote Originally Posted by 1point2 View Post
    This guy is long lost; he sounds like he's enamored with demo-taiji.

    Notice how it always goes into questions of "life or death."
    I am definitely not enamored with demo-taiji. It has to work.

    In the mis-quoted conversation, I was pointing out that in a competetive environment the point system should be designed to reward "good" behavior as defined by the "art" that it is a competition for.

    Knowing about taiji, I don't feel that the chinese system encourages good taiji, it rewards actions that are clearly in violation of the parameters defining taijiquan. These parameters are the principles.

    Mr. Kagan could not/would not even discuss the defining principles, rather simply asking for video. The funny thing is he in the discussion provided video links that did the same thing, he just did not understand what he was looking at.

    Often fights are life or death for artists that I know, LE and Military.

  5. #15

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    My head hurts.

    Okay so, we have the streets, MMA is horrible, the deadly, turning a loss into a win, Street vs sport, demos as proof, and principles.

    Man I wish we could go back in time. I bet Taiji Masters would laugh. "Hahaha you think those principles were written as non-contact fighting Bwahahahaha that's why Tai Chi looks like garbage in your time."

    I.....never mind ridiculous.
    I don't think I once said MMA is horrible, just that it trains for specific uses just as all arts.

    I certainly won't debate the way most Taiji looks today. That is part of my issue.

    I agree, the taiji principles were written for contact use, that is how I read them and use them.

  6. #16
    Rivington's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    East Bay, CA
    Okay, I'll bite: what principles of taiji do you think are missing in the most rigorous of Chinese tuishou competitions?

  7. #17
    Kintanon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Athens, Ga
    TKD, BJJ
    Because jagoffs like you have contaminted the idea of Martial Arts with eastern spritualism and mysticism. Because eastern culture has a strong spiritual component in their daily lives the bring that to everything they do. Idiots like you conflate that with the requirement that there be a spiritual component to those activities. That's simply not the case.
    Your symantic debate also falls flat quickly as Sun Tzu's famous text is titled The Art of War, but no one would ever think that fandancing is an appropriate activity to win a war. The word ART in the phrase Martial Art is a synonym for SKILL. Martial Arts are the Skills of Combat. They should provide you with the tools you need to fight. That is all there is to it. Once those things exist in the art then if you want to add on spiritual hocus pocus that's your business. But a Martial Art must AT LEAST teach you how to fight or it is not a Martial Art, it's just Art.

  8. #18
    Dark Overlord of the Bullshido Underworld supporting member
    Tom Kagan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    New York, NY USA
    Taai Si Ji Kung Fu
    Taijirichm: first off, Welcome. You are in for a fun ride. I give you props for cowboying up to my invite.
    Calm down, it's only ones and zeros.

    "Your calm and professional manner of response is really draining all the fun out of this. Can you reply more like Dr. Fagbot or something? Call me some names, mention some sand in my vagina or something of the sort. You can't expect me to come up with reasonable arguments man!" -- MaverickZ

    "Tom Kagan spins in his grave and the fucking guy isn't even dead yet." -- Snake Plissken

    My Bullshido fan club threads:
    Tom Kagan's a big hairy...
    Tom Kagan can lick my BALLS
    Tom Kagan teaches _ing __un and bigotry?
    Tom Kagan: Serious discussion here
    Lamokio asks the burning question is Tom Kagan a ***** or just cruising for some
    I'm Dave the gay Kickboxer from Manchester and I have the hots for Tom Kagan
    World Dominator 'Kagan' in plot to lie about real Kung Fu and Martial Arts
    Tom Kagan just gave me my third negative rep in a day
    I am infatuated with Tom Kagan
    Tom Kagan is a fat balding white guy.

  9. #19
    Jack Rusher's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    New York City
    ti da shuai na
    Quote Originally Posted by Rivington View Post
    Okay, I'll bite: what principles of taiji do you think are missing in the most rigorous of Chinese tuishou competitions?
    In particular, this one:

    YouTube - TaiChi 太極推手比賽
    Most people do not do, but take refuge in theory and talk, thinking that they will become good in this way -- Aristotle, Nicomachean Ethics, II.4

  10. #20
    1point2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    BJJ blue, judo ikkyu
    Quote Originally Posted by Rivington View Post
    Okay, I'll bite: what principles of taiji do you think are missing in the most rigorous of Chinese tuishou competitions?
    Or rather, in what way do Chinese tuishou competitions stray outside the parameters you see as defining taijiquan?

    What could conceivably fall within those parameters and remain vigorous?

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