Quote Originally Posted by judoka_uk View Post
Indeed BJJ has moved away from the Gracies so that its now BJJ not GJJ
Worth noting that 'the Gracies' covers a huge and diverse group of people, with a range of teaching styles, some of which have a very high regard for judo (e.g., one of my old instructors, Roger Gracie, who has been training with Ray Stevens for a long time, and indeed awarded Stevens a black belt in BJJ). In the context of this thread, it is more specifically the Gracie Academy in Torrance.

Quote Originally Posted by Fitz
Yeah, after that I had to take a look at some source. Since this is more of a quick and dirty thing I'll just go with the Kimura page on Wikipedia for now and see what else I can turn up later.
I did a bit of looking while writing my history piece, especially as it isn't just the size difference between Kimura and Helio which is suspicious, but the alleged discrepancy between Carlos and Helio (in fact, judging by photos, Carlos may well have been smaller). This is what I've got so far:

Quote Originally Posted by me
In The Gracie Way, Kid Peligro writes that Kimura "weighed 220 pounds [99.7kg] to Hélio's 154 [69.8kg]" [25]. This contradicts Kimura's account in My Judo, as he states there that "Hélio was 180cm and 80kg [176lbs]." On the JudoForum, one poster claims that "I did a little research and found that Kimura weighed somewhere in the neighborhood of 185lbs [83.9kg]. and stood 5'6."

This is also backed up by Kastriot "George" Mehdi, a long-time critic of the Gracies (but also an exceptional judoka and teacher, who has taught Rickson, Carlson Jr and Sylvio Behring, among others). Mehdi once spent some years training under Kimura, and states in Robert Pedreira's article that Kimura was far from the 100kg often claimed by the Gracies. He showed Pedreira a picture of Mehdi and Kimura at around the time of the fight: Mehdi was 5'9 and 80kg, and according to Pedreira, the photograph makes it clear that the two men looked physically comparable, in terms of mass and height. Therefore it would appear that Hélio was certainly smaller than Kimura, but it remains unclear exactly how much.