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  1. #11
    Locu5's Avatar
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    Use reasonable force and nothing more.
    Locu5
    combat sports hobbyist

  2. #12
    Mjelva's Avatar
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    The arm-triangle offers good control of your opponent, and he will eventually black out from it if the neck crank doesn't get him first. It depends on the execution.

    But no, in my experiece there are more powerful chokes.
    Last edited by Mjelva; 10/08/2006 8:39am at .

  3. #13
    TKD Black Belt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mjelva
    The arm-triangle offers good control of your opponent, and he will eventually black out from it if the neck crank doesn't get him first. It depends on the execution.
    - First off if you're doing this as a 'crank' then you aren't doing it right. This should be a blood choke. Yes I realize that the crank is there but like many other things in this word using pain as a means to an end varies person to person. What one guy (or girl) might tap to may just be a mild inconvenience to another person.

    - Also, when put on properly 'eventually' actually equals somewhere between 3-5 seconds.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mjelva
    But no, in my experiece there are more powerful chokes.
    - There is no more powerful choke than a blood choke. Interrupting blood flow to the brain is about the best way I know of (short of shooting someone) to make sure they are not able to continue with the assault/fight etc...

    - It doesn't matter if you're using a guillotine, a triangle (with the legs), a RNC , a head and arm or any other 'blood' choke they will all accomplish the same thing in the same amount of time. I've seen people pass out in a triangle choke because they didn't realize how bad the position was and were unconscious before they could tap. I can only assume that what you really mean is:

    "I'm not very good at this choke and I use another one which I have a higher success rate with."

    I'm not belittling you I'm just pointing out what it is I think you're actually saying.

    TKD

    PS - One of the things I've always disliked about Aikido is that too many of the submissions and holds rely on pain as a means to an end. When you're dealing with someone with a high pain threshold or an 'artificially enhanced' higher pain threshold a number of these holds become functionally useless.

  4. #14

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    One can get an arm triangle from mount amongst other positions. That's on the ground. Last time I saw it (UFC 62) the guy put in it passed out before he could tap. So it seems pretty effective to me. Just like all other blood chokes.

  5. #15
    Mjelva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TKD Black Belt
    - First off if you're doing this as a 'crank' then you aren't doing it right. This should be a blood choke. Yes I realize that the crank is there but like many other things in this word using pain as a means to an end varies person to person. What one guy (or girl) might tap to may just be a mild inconvenience to another person.
    It can be finished as a neck crank, or it can be finished as a blood choke.
    In my experience it is usually a mix of the two.

    - Also, when put on properly 'eventually' actually equals somewhere between 3-5 seconds.
    I have never blacked out in 3-5 seconds, even when voluntarily allowing someone to put me in a choke.

    - There is no more powerful choke than a blood choke. Interrupting blood flow to the brain is about the best way I know of (short of shooting someone) to make sure they are not able to continue with the assault/fight etc...
    Not all blood chokes are equal. Stop being dense.

    - It doesn't matter if you're using a guillotine, a triangle (with the legs), a RNC , a head and arm or any other 'blood' choke they will all accomplish the same thing in the same amount of time. I've seen people pass out in a triangle choke because they didn't realize how bad the position was and were unconscious before they could tap. I can only assume that what you really mean is:

    "I'm not very good at this choke and I use another one which I have a higher success rate with."
    It does matter. Any choke that stops the bloodflow to the brain will cause loss of consciousness. But you can't seriously be claiming that the sidechoke does that as effectively as the rear naked choke. That's just ridiculous.

    I'm not belittling you I'm just pointing out what it is I think you're actually saying.
    You're trying to put words in my mouth, and you're doing a piss-poor job of it.
    Last edited by Mjelva; 10/08/2006 5:41pm at .

  6. #16
    I'm grindin' 'till I'm tired...

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    How and why did this thread end up in DHS? I put in in YMAS because I knew it was basically a "HOW DO ARMBAR" post. Why bother to move it here if you're just going to delete everything anyway?

    EDIT: Well actually, it started in YMAS, where it was moved, reasonably, to guantanamo bay as it was a question from a grappling novice about grappling, and then it got closed there because people were talking about aikido or something and then it gets moved here where it clearly doesn't belong... can someone tell me which forum I should post this sort of question in? And please don't tell me it's a question utterly without merit, surely we can agree that some useful discussion has occurred, and I have certainly learned a few things.
    Last edited by Epicurus; 10/09/2006 12:44am at .

  7. #17
    BackFistMonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Epicurus
    I know basically nothing about grappling so-
    Just for the record ...


    This is why I train with the BJJ guys and local wrestling "assistant" coaches instead of asking here .

    Both ingenious and annoying as hell when you want an answer .

    So ... way to go Shuma and **** you , you cock sucker .
    I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.
    BILL HICKS,
    1961-1994

    Quote Originally Posted by Jean Paula-Satire
    Never believe that the GOP and fellow bigots are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The bigots and Republicans have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past and that besides, they have already won

  8. #18

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    Im a firm believer in submissions even on "the streetz". But rarely do people tapout in a street confrontation, mostly because they wont or dont understand. Not to mention if you were tapping my shoulder and I got the rnc...I'm gonna wait until your sleeping to let go. Both those chokes and most chokes in general are better to use in a restraint situation, rather than say an armbar cause your either going to break it or let go and then what ..... start fighting again.
    Eduardo "Why'd you stop."

    Me "I was kicked in the head by the guys sparring next to me."

    Eduardo "Ino what happened but i didnt say you could stop."

    Me "Um.. I guess I keep going."

    Eduardo "You dont stop until i say stop, you dont get tired until i say your tired, keep going."


    Originally posted by Ralek
    My cousin gave me some tapes of him doing tkd. I learned from those tapes. When I beat up an Akido instructor, and made him take rest breaks, I used TKD. I learned Bjj from watching ufc and pride and then I copied them and wrestled my cousin for practice. I choked him out and he tapped.

  9. #19
    Tangerine's Avatar
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    Well, there's a big ************ in my class you always gets the head and arm triangle on me and there's a small and fast ************ who always gets the RNC on me, so it depends on your body type plus his body type. Ultimately, I would say the RNC is better, just b/c if it fails your still on his back...then he may escape to your mount, but your still mounted on him...

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