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  1. #91

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    I know this is an old thread. But, I'd just like to say that I've never heard anything bad about Don Angier or Yanagi Ryu. I do not have first hand experience, I have never met Mr. Angier, I have talked (on occasion) with one or two of his senior students, and I know a number of people who have met Mr. Angier.

    Everybody who has actually met the man and experienced his art say he is legit. That's good enough for me.

    Also, concerning sokeship...I beleive there are a few westerners who are direct inheritors of Japanese arts. Take a look at Takamura ha Shindo Yoshin Ryu, as an example.

    In addition, I beleive Yanagi Ryu has SOME distant ties to Daito Ryu. Kotaro Yoshida was a senior student (at least from my sources) of Sokaku Takeda and introduced him to Morihei Ueshiba.

  2. #92

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    Don Angier is NOT the soke of Yanagi Ryu

    The soke of Yanagi Ryu is the direct descendant of Iwanaga Gennojo Masamitsu, and is still teaching in Kansai Japan. Don Angier and his style have no connection to the koryu Yanagi Ryu. Check out http://www.yanagiryu.com/ as well as the history books. Don Angier created a name for his own style that uses the name of an already existing koryu -- but the style Angier's people are teaching bears no resemblance to the true Koryu Yanagi Ryu which actually has a longer name Shin Getsu Muso Yanagi Ryu.

  3. #93

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    A couple of comments:

    1) yes there is another style of Yanagi Ryu that is definitely Koryu big fucking deal to some, less of a deal to others

    2) Angier is crazy good! Whatever his roots are (diatoryu or Koryu) It is a pleasure to count myself among the buj group that attended his seminars pretty regularly back in the day.

    3) About teasing the Philipino guy: Unfortunately Samurai Ninja BS still does effect politics... Angier was actually on the outs with Northern California Bujinkan, years ago, when a stupid indovodual was insulted by one of Don's Samurai tricks... thank Dale Seigo for healing that rift....

    4) This thread is basically BS there is more to the Sokei-ship but Soke is a modern term, Only in use in the last century and subject to artistic liscene.

    All anybody that has not trained with Angeir has to know is that he and his student's are wickedly good, the art does depend on precision, it may not appeal to all,

    Its his art to do what the **** he wants to do with it

    It is not Bullshido at least by any standard of epistemology, awareness demonstrated on this thread about what may really be issues related to the arts transmission.

    Its none of my business but when a thread does not belong in Bullshido and it is there its kind of like making somoene pick up their blood pressure meds at a pharmacy in a methodone clinic if youcatch my drift.

  4. #94

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dsimon3387
    4) This thread is basically BS there is more to the Sokei-ship but Soke is a modern term, Only in use in the last century and subject to artistic liscene.
    Within Japanese culture Soke is not a modern term at all. Its use to denote the head of a given lineage or art, martial or otherwise, extends at least as far back as the Tokugawa period (1603-1868).

    It's use outside of a Japanese context is a relatively recent phenomena, and I'm assuming that this is really what you are refering to.

  5. #95

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fitz
    Within Japanese culture Soke is not a modern term at all. Its use to denote the head of a given lineage or art, martial or otherwise, extends at least as far back as the Tokugawa period (1603-1868).

    It's use outside of a Japanese context is a relatively recent phenomena, and I'm assuming that this is really what you are refering to.
    my info says it is a modern usage, I will check, but at this point in time I disagree with you. And you know what if I am wrong, not a big deal to me, the issue still remains and Fitz I like your posts, i feel like you are a stand up guy so think about this:

    1) There are no complicated lineage conflicts for the head of this art

    2) You are Bujinkan literate so you probably know something about Don, or any people you know connected to the Buj will tell you Don makes no claims. You have to find him. So there is no hyperbole going on here

    3) Don has a well deserved reputation for teaching first rate material... unless an Akido idiot askes him a question about sword etiquette at one of his seminars..... arrrghhh!!!!

    4) So there is no Bullshido connection. There are some other issues related to the transmission of this title which the guy everybody disparaged on the thread hinted at.... but they are in my mind none of anyones business.

  6. #96

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    Angier's ability

    Quote Originally Posted by Dsimon3387
    A couple of comments:

    1) yes there is another style of Yanagi Ryu that is definitely Koryu big fucking deal to some, less of a deal to others

    2) Angier is crazy good! Whatever his roots are (diatoryu or Koryu) It is a pleasure to count myself among the buj group that attended his seminars pretty regularly back in the day.


    Its his art to do what the **** he wants to do with it
    -----
    No disrespect to Angier, his group or style, which I am sure is very viable. But for other people to post on blogs forums etc all over Googkle that it is koryu is simply revising history.

  7. #97

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    Quote Originally Posted by Malo
    No disrespect to Angier, his group or style, which I am sure is very viable. But for other people to post on blogs forums etc all over Googkle that it is koryu is simply revising history.
    most people don't know the issues involved, the name is a common name for styles, and I don't remember any claims from Angier's people that it was Koryu. Maybe that has changed and that claim has been made? People post a lot of things, it does not make them worthy of consideration.

  8. #98

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    From my recollection, neither Mr. Angier nor his students have ever claimed that the art is a koryu.

    And the name of the art is Yoshida ha Shidare Yanagi-ryu. Yes, there is another art in Japan called Shin Getsu Muso Yanagi-ryu. Big deal. There are numerous, non-related arts that have the words "kage" or "yoshin" in their title. That doesn't mean anything either.

    From the horses mouth: http://www.e-budo.com/forum/showthread.php?t=34562

    "Please do a little more homework. There are several arts out there that have “Yanagi” in the name. Ours, (Shidare Yanagi ryu), Seibutsu Yanagi ryu, Yanagi Kage ryu, and another that goes only by Yanagi ryu. There are probably a couple more out there as well. The usage of the term Yanagi was once synonymous with Yoshin ryu, which I believe is one of the predecessors of Shingetsu Muso Yanagi ryu as well as many other systems. Many of the arts that stemmed from Yoshin ryu have used the term Yanagi over the years. The theme of the willow is quite common in martial arts, especially those containing a jujutsu syllabus.

    On a side note, I have NEVER claimed Shidare Yanagi ryu to be koryu. Until we can learn more about the family beyond the last 3 generations we are not sure how far back [the art] goes." - Richard Elias, Yoshida ha Bujutsu, Takamura ha Shindo Yoshin-ryu

    This was followed by a few corrections which can be found in the thread I linked to.
    Last edited by FourT6and2; 11/15/2007 11:58pm at .

  9. #99

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    Zengun9 is a troll! He is a jack-off punk who likes to stir up S*%t then let idoiots g et suckered into his arguements. He does not study under Angier Soke or under any MA Teacher I know (and I know just about all of them in the Valley) since he lives in my area nor does he know any of the people he mentioned. My bet is he cut and pasted from another thread.

    FYI http://www.tenkobushi.com/DonAngierS...kiSeminar.html

    This does not mean I train or have been training under Angier Soke either but I am hosting his seminar at the end of may.

  10. #100

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    Quote Originally Posted by FourT6and2 View Post
    From my recollection, neither Mr. Angier nor his students have ever claimed that the art is a koryu.

    And the name of the art is Yoshida ha Shidare Yanagi-ryu. Yes, there is another art in Japan called Shin Getsu Muso Yanagi-ryu. Big deal. There are numerous, non-related arts that have the words "kage" or "yoshin" in their title. That doesn't mean anything either.

    From the horses mouth: http://www.e-budo.com/forum/showthread.php?t=34562

    "Please do a little more homework. There are several arts out there that have “Yanagi” in the name. Ours, (Shidare Yanagi ryu), Seibutsu Yanagi ryu, Yanagi Kage ryu, and another that goes only by Yanagi ryu. There are probably a couple more out there as well. The usage of the term Yanagi was once synonymous with Yoshin ryu, which I believe is one of the predecessors of Shingetsu Muso Yanagi ryu as well as many other systems. Many of the arts that stemmed from Yoshin ryu have used the term Yanagi over the years. The theme of the willow is quite common in martial arts, especially those containing a jujutsu syllabus.

    On a side note, I have NEVER claimed Shidare Yanagi ryu to be koryu. Until we can learn more about the family beyond the last 3 generations we are not sure how far back [the art] goes." - Richard Elias, Yoshida ha Bujutsu, Takamura ha Shindo Yoshin-ryu

    This was followed by a few corrections which can be found in the thread I linked to.
    thank you for clearing that up. I have been to plenty of Angier's seminars and nevr remembered him claiming to be Koryu... It would be Diatoryu for chrissake!! Miuch appreciated.

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