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  1. #1

    Join Date
    Jun 2003

    Moses Powell and Sanuces Ryu

    Hey Folks,

    How many of you have seen or studied with Moses Powell of the Sanuces Ryu style. I have taken a couple of seminars with him and one of his top students, Lil' John Davis and it seemed at the time that a lot of the stuff they showed depended on the fact that an opponent would throw a punch and then leave the arm extended so you could grab it and go into a lot of wonderful wrist locks and so forth. The style from what I understand is supposed to be designed for street self defense, but who is going to throw a punch and just leave the arm extended? My previous post was about David James and Vee Arnis (thanks to those who responded) and I know Vee Arnis is an offshoot of Sanuces Ryu. I spoke to David James on the phone once and insisted that there was a huge difference between Vee Arnis and Sanuces. From what I have seen at seminars and videos, David James' work does seem to be more street practical.

    Thanks for listening!!

    The Skeptic

  2. #2

    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    I have never studied with moses powell but I have and still do study jujitsu (more like kirby and wally jay style.) I have always questioned whether the wrist locks are effective or not. I think the answer is: MAYBE.
    It depends on h following:
    1) Getting a good grab- You must be able to get ahold of the arm quick an inflict pain instantaneously. In traditional karate there is a kakiuke grab which is pretty effective.
    2) Loosening technique- you have to "give him something to think about" to take his mind off his arm like a shot to the groin, chop to the temple or whatever... This is very important and isnt stressed enough.
    3) execute seemlessly and effectively- you got to know the locks cold and be able to do them quickly and properly.

    If I was attacked, I would NEVER use these unless I coincidentally or accidentaly got ahold of his hand somehow OR if he grabbed me or put his hands on me. These moves are notintuitive and if I was attacked I would have closed fists ready to duke it out. If you do wantto use these moves practice constantly and pick one or two locks for each situation, don't have 12 lined up b/c you'll never be able to choose when the time comes. The key is for it to be second nature.

  3. #3
    elipson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    BC, Canada
    BJJ, mma
    Several of my Sensei's have met and trained with Moses Powell (They have a pic of them all sitting together on a couch) and they all speak with a lot of respect for him. You don't get a 10th Dan for nothing.

    I wouldn't Judge an instructor (not that you are) or his style until you've trained for quite a while with him. Seeing one technique is not a good measure of a style.

    Wrist locks dont work if the guy knows what you're doing to him, but if you distract him, then it'll be too late for him to do anything. I personally don't think I would use a wrist "lock", I would prefer to simply break the wrist as fast as possible. They work amazingly well if you just snap the bone and dont **** around with it.

  4. #4

    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    A lot of what I do is similar. The wrist lock from the punch is about timing. If your truly commited to that punch you will be punching to knock the guys head off. If you redirect instead of block that gives you the ability to throw someone with a wrist lock. It's tough and takes a rmendous amount of practice and like I said timing. My system emphasizes the fact of striking before the lock for the " distraction". Besides if you knock a guy out with a strike you don't need to lock him up anyway.

    Just to give an example. We do an exercise so one can develop a sense of soft while moving so the opponent doesn't know what it is your doing and doesn't react. If I tyr to slap a wrist lock on you you will pull your hand away but if you don't realize it you won't react until its too late...

  5. #5

    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Weight Training
    "The wrist lock from the punch is about timing. "
    exactly.......the blending movements are for advanced practitioners.....

    Skeptic-what you may have seen are demonstration moves, as to see a full speed on....

    my Sifu can do it.....something I'm still scratching my head about....

    Hard work, Patience, Dedication.
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  6. #6

    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Be Happy
    It really depends. I have seen fights where guys would throw a punch and quickly snapped back their arm. But I have also seen fights where the guy throws out a comitted thrusting punch without quickly pulling back their arm. It has more power but is more easily grabbed.

    "Do what thou wilt is the whole of the Law"
    Ghost of Charles Dickens

  7. #7

    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    sanuces ryu /shotokan


    When throwing a straight punch in practice it helps you with your timeing when some one is trowing a hook punch. The straight punch gets there faster. Also when they leave their punch out like that its just to show the technique in a slow manner.

  8. #8

    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Thurmont, MD
    Sanuces Ryu Jujitsu
    I have trained in Sanuces for three years. A lot of what you see in seminars and video clips is done slowly so that it can be demonstrated and seen. Sanuces is about movement. The lock ups and throws in most cases come after you have first made contact and struck your opponent at least once and in many cases a few times. For example with a straight punch you might slide off line to the outside striking the floating ribs under the punch before re grabbing the arm and breaking it then if the situation presents it self you could lock and throw. Striking is done for effect ie strike muscles, eyes, throat, etc. Destroy any weapon the opponent uses. Sanuces teaches how to think on your feet and adapt to the situation. How to put basic strikes, blocks, locks, and such together based on the body mechanics your opponent displays. After three years I still have a lot to learn but I hope this helped some.

  9. #9

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Orlando, Florida
    I trained under Daniel Torres for about 3.5/4 years. He is in the Vee Arnis family. I have also been on the mat with Prof. David James a couple of times when he came down from NY to visit our school; and I have been on the mat with Lil John Davis (his signature is actually on my Blue Belt certificate along with my instructor).

    I will say that Prof. James style is very different IMO from that taught my Moses. Each is in the Vee Arnis Family (Prof. James is actually the head of the family per Prof. Vee) but each has taken a different focus in their interpretation of the style originally founded by Prof. Vee. I will say without hesitateion that Prof. James is the real deal. I had not had a chance to train with Moses Powell before he died, so I can't give an opinion on his particular style.

    Each "Visitation Art" may differ from the other with regard to the particular focus in the particular school, i.e., some heavy striking, some heavy jujitsu, some heavy judo/throws, some have RBSD. It just depends on the head instructor.

  10. #10
    Yrkoon9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Land of the Living
    And get this **** out of the Icompete area...because none of it will work in a competitive environment.

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