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  1. #151

    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Kung Fu
    Quote Originally Posted by new2bjj
    I did Wu Shu for awhile, because I still liked the Martial Ats work out, and I wasn't into sparring, i just wanted to twirl some cool weapons and. After awhile, I began to realize that all these guys considered this real martial arts, while I just considered it a work out, and their competitions "cool". But down deep, I knew that this was just baton twirling, and then, I saw a link for m my classmates website to an XMA website that had a article about how to improve you jumping kicks from an article on Cheerleading jumping splits. That pretty much ended it. Learining the steel whip was fun though....
    I don't get it. You quit wushu because a guy was willing to learn from cheerleaders? (who probably know a thing or two about jumping splits) If you learned the steel whip you must have been pretty advanced. And you walked away from it because it used techniques that cheerleaders use? Did you think it was too "Girly"?

  2. #152
    WARNING: BJJ may cause airway obstruction. Join us... or die
    EternalRage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Long Island
    Bajillion Joo Jizzu
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisiblefist
    The analogy doesn't hold up. One takes movements that CAN be used for fighting and repurposes them. Writing a poem about war isn't the same: the poem was never used for fighting.
    I agree. Martial arts is about fighting. Period. Nothing will ever change that. Not even if people take it and do something completely different with it. That's the problem with these arguments, they tend to intertwine purpose and definition and that's simply illogical. Just because a bunch of high yahoos think Tai Chi is their gateway to chi nirvana doesn't mean Tai Chi itself is not capable of being a fighting system. It is still a martial art. It is just a martial art that no one seems to be able to fight with.

    A good analogy is military parade drill. At one time it had direct combat application..they actually marched into battle in formation. Now it has no combat application. But they keep it around. Why? Tradition, aesthetics, and because it teaches things (teamwork, following orders, esprit de corps)which, while not directly applicable to combat, make better soldiers.
    That's not very applicable to the statement you posted right before it. A better analogy would be driving cars. Some people drive for racing. Some people drive to get from Point A to Point B. Does this change that driving is basically operating an automobile? No. Similarly, regardless of whatever people do with martial arts (a good workout, winning plastic trophies, for fun, etc) doesn't change the fact that martial arts systems are about fighting.

  3. #153
    Gezere's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Rhineland Pfalz, Der Vaderland
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisiblefist
    Formations are still used, but they are very different from what they were in musket combat.

    I've watched revolutionary war reinactments. If there's a difference between the british marching formations and modern ceremonial parade drill *I* can't see it.

    From the wikipedia entry for Parade (military):

    "A parade refers to any times soldiers are in formation with restriction of movement. The American usage is "formation."

    This comes from the old tradition of formation combat, in which soldiers were held in very strict formations as to maximize their combat effectiveness. Formation combat was seen as an alternative to mle combat, which required strict soldier discipline and competent commanders. As long as the formations could be maintained, the 'civilized' soldiers would maintain a significant advantage over their less organized opponents.

    Although modern warfare has shirked this in favour of guerilla combat and loose formations, modern militaries still use parades for ceremonial purposes or in noncombat environments for their efficiency and ease of organization. Roughly synonymous are "drill" and "march". Drilling started in the 16th century with the Dutch army of prince Maurice of Orange. The English word drill is from Middle Dutch origin. Recruits are taught drill to teach them how to work and move as a team. In addition, formations are still used in riot control situations.

    The U.S. drill is based on the contributions of Baron von Steuben, a Prussian Army officer who served as a volunteer in the Continental Army. During the winter quarters in Valley Forge, Pennsylvania, von Steuben taught a model company of 100 soldiers musket drill. These soldiers, in turn, taught the remainder of the Continental Army."

    You don't understand.

    DRILLS are still used. That covers troop movement. Ceremony includes drills.

    A PARADE wasn't used for combat it was used in the prepreation and aftermath. It is a ceremoney the same as a Review. A musket formation was not a parade but it was a formation. A parade also consists of formations but with a differnt purpose.

    Drills are still used for combat, such as files, columns, etc.
    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Dark Emperor of Baji!!!


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