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  1. #111

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    thanks for the welcome! I have trained in Kenpo and some Aikido. I actually did the Kenpo for several years. The striking he is teaching are good, basic strikes. Nothing Tae Kwon flashy or anything. Bread and butter. The Chin Na are similar to lock flow and chokes that I have studied before in other styles so it satisfies me that he has a good understanding of basic techniques and martial principles. (based on my experiences) I have seen him spar quite a bit and we have taken seminars from some fairly famous people that train with him (gene dunn etc.) and I just don't believe that Gene Dunn gives anybody a decent level of respect that hasn't been earned. I guess it isn't that I don't care if he is genuine it is just that I have seen his talent and am certain that I would like to continue working on the principles of self defense with him. I guess I have never been too obsessed with lineage if I felt that I was seeing good, solid basics performed and taught. I am 34 and not a kid anymore so am not training so I can win my next bar brawl that is hopefully never going to happen. I enjoy his style of communication and respond to his methodology so that is enough for me. Does that make sense?

    Mike

  2. #112
    GIJoe6186's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    As long as you know that your training wont enable you to fend off a bar fight or a mugger or most people, then yes, it makes sense. You mentioned your not a kid anymore and not training to win a bar brawl. So I think you don't feel prepared to fend for yourself.

    Don't think Im just a MMA nuthugger though. I have a 3rd Brown in Kempo and have learned some Kung Fu forms, all sorts of Chin Na also. Bottom line is that Chin Na wont help you in any fight, which is what martial arts are supposed to be for, right? I know,, I know, MMA has rules you'll say. But the early ones didn't. The ones where Wing chun, Aikido, Combat Karate and Kung Fu masters fought had no rules. No biting or eye pokes. Thats it. In Brazil they still have fights like that. You can hit the groin! Do any pressure point attack you want, any Chin Na you can think off, and none of it works.

    As long as you understand that and are fine with it for some reason, then ok. doesnt make sense but to each his own.

    Also, BTW, there are plenty of older guys in their 30s who train in kickboxing, BJJ and the like. You just dont have to use the same intensity or spar when kickboxing if you don't want. Bag work and grappling does wonders for your ability to fight.

  3. #113

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Actually It isn't that I don't feel I can fend for myself (I am a fairly big guy and have fought in the past when I was a bigger knucklehead) it is just that my focus isn't solely on how fast I can prepare myself for streetfighting that I hope I have grown out of at 34. I think you have to try fairly hard to get in to a physical confrontation and would like to think I am maturing (at least some). We do practice grappling and do a ton of striking and I do realize that chi na would not be something I would be trying to use in a fight. In real fights I have pretty much always used my hands. It has been a decade since I got in a fight outside of a dojo and I intend to keep it that way. I think it is a mistake to think that martial arts should be used solely to learn how to fight. Mental discipline and control make the man.

    Mike

  4. #114
    GIJoe6186's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    But why do you need martial arts to teach you mental discipline and control?

    Why practice something, like Chin Na, which is intended for fighting, when you yourself realize that you would not use it?

    Even though you don't get into fights and you want to keep it that way, others may not want too. Of course you may never end up in another fight, but you don't know. Some people are just assholes. You might not start it, but you'll still be in one.

    Practicing hand movements that make no sense and are not practical do not make you mentally disciplined. Your 34. Im sure life has disciplined you enough. If you really want to discipline yourself, to control your mind, all that mind over body stuff, theres tons of things to do that have real impacts. Get into shape. Your body is a machine. Treat it like one and find out how to take care of it the best way. Learn a new language. Read War and Peace.

    Martial arts should be about fighting first. Because if it were only about discipline, why not just have a martial art of reading?

  5. #115

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Reading increases your knowledge but not necessarily discipline over your mind. Learning a new language will not necessarily discipline the mind either. I agree that the physical aspect of martial arts increases discipline. Discipline of body can help lead to discipline of mind. I practice chin na because learning sensitivity to partners and learning principles of motion and the way the body moves certainly helps your understanding of how your body moves and will help you discipline your body and mind. How many people do you know that have been training for 30 years and still find themselves getting in to fights? Somebody could certainly attack you but the first line of defense is going to be mindfullness and awareness of your surroundings and control of your situation. Those things come from discipline of the mind.

    So let me put on my reading glasses and karate chop a book....

  6. #116

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hi Clutch. Fist of all, I want to say that I practiced with Robert Brown for 7 years and know many former students that practiced with him even longer than that.

    I agree with you that the physical of what he teaches is great, and I do not believe that I ever said anything to the contrary.

    For me, and a huge percentage of his students that left over the last 12 to 18 months, the rub is: If he lied about his teachers, how much time he spent learning from certain ones, invented teachers that did not exist, changed the name of his art by 1 letter so it resembles REAL AND AUTHENTIC YUECHIA, but people don't really notice, what else is he lying about?

    He will treat you well for another year or 2, and then you will see a change, or you will open your eyes and see how he treats others. Did you ask yourself why there are almost NO senior students in the school? Where did all of his Red Sashes go? Where are the bulk of his 2nd green? Hmm...

    Just so you know...He is the only person in the world that teaches YUCHIA (besides Hurtsellers that he is teaching) because he made up the name. The forms, besides Sanchin, are forms that he made up. When you ask, he will tell you that the principles are thousands of years old, but he never does tell you that he made them up. Ask him where he learned them? He does not meditate...hmm. He is angry all of the time and masks it in front of everyone but his close circle (Jerri, Ryan, Pat right now). Ask around what happened to Jason...did he really move or was it all a lie? Ask him where he learned T'ai Chi...it is a mixed up bag of stuff and you still won't know where he learned it. I can tell you that some of his T'ai Chi students have demonstrated in front of authentic masters whose response was: "What was that?"

    If you are learning and are happy, go for it! But if you DO NOT want to part of perpetuating lies, half truths about what he learned and what he teaches, LEAVE!

    I particularly like the story about when he announced to the "YUCHIA" people (must have been in the mirror) that he wanted to teach, and they said no and kicked him out of the federation. He magically meets a Master at Shaolin who teaches Yuchia who promotes Brown over everyone else? NOT!!! It is not even spelled right!!!
    Last edited by mi_man_us; 7/21/2007 10:38am at .

  7. #117
    GIJoe6186's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yes, but instead of doing Chin Na to increase sensitivity, you could be doing BJJ or another grappling style (Judo, Sambo, Wrestling, Sport JJ) which will give you real sensitivity that is useful.

    The problem is that the principles of motion are not taught by doing Chin Na. If they were, it would work. They do not, as we agreed before. Right? So how can it teach you principles of motion?

    I know lots of people who trained for years and have not gotten in to fights. That doesn't mean there not prepared though.

    I don't understand how you could learn a skill that only imitates fighting but gives you no actual skill into a real fight.

    Once again, with principles of motion, if you really want to learn how to off balance a person and use their own force against them, take up Judo. You'll learn true sensitivity as someone is trying to toss your ass and your trying to toss them. Its not a rough and tumble, see whose stronger contest. Its a true test of technique along with timing and strength.

  8. #118
    Thaiboxerken's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Live grappling involves sensitivy? C'mon, now you're going to confuse the man with facts.
    "Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire.

  9. #119

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by clutch30
    Reading increases your knowledge but not necessarily discipline over your mind. Learning a new language will not necessarily discipline the mind either. I agree that the physical aspect of martial arts increases discipline. Discipline of body can help lead to discipline of mind. I practice chin na because learning sensitivity to partners and learning principles of motion and the way the body moves certainly helps your understanding of how your body moves and will help you discipline your body and mind.
    Who ever said anything about grappling not increasing sensitivity? I merely said that Chi Na is ONE WAY to increase sensitivity. I had actually had two replies that were well thought out and sincere and had high hopes for the level of intellect on the board.....Then came the one directly above this one.........Le Sigh....

  10. #120
    GIJoe6186's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yes, Chin Na increases sensitivity but it does not carry over effectively to combat, which martial arts are for.

    What are you increasing sensitivity for? Why do you want it? What does it mean to you? How does this discipline yourself anymore then learning any other skill?

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