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  1. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by armistice View Post
    same youtube channel, not much variety but a basic overview. I do not know the owner.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJotDjZqI-A
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Jk4IPnCvz4



    are you in a bad mood or do you just look for arguments online? Yes its not an original record, its just easy to find and on a government website. I've said my piece, we focus extensively on goshin waza (self defense technique). If you saw a video of Sōsuishiryu kata with some swords that's obviously not very applicable to the street, thats just tradition. I also don't own or work for the dojo just so thats on the record. Id continue this discussion but I don't see anything productive coming out of it.
    Well, there are a few issues, here.

    Military Service and Duties Claims

    In the first place, Michael has re-raised a concern that people may be making fraudulent claims about Mr. Fink's service record, and/or his Judo rank.

    Those concerns qualify the discussion to be in MABs, this forum.

    However, Mr. Fink, served in the military, and he probably did teach martial arts classes to other soldiers at some point.

    I am not concerned about the special forces claims, given the time period mentioned.

    In fact, I respect the fact that Mr. Fink was a civilian emergency responder, and a military veteran.

    So, I have no issues there.

    Judo Rank

    Regarding the Judo rank, it seems that Mr. Fink was ranked in Japan.

    Having been to Japan a few times myself to train Judo, and study martial arts,

    I am aware that Japan is actually kind of funny about ranking people.

    Many Americans are surprised that it is often easier and quicker to get ranks in Japan, than here.

    It is entirely possible that Mr. Fink was ranked as a Godan in Judo in Japan - although that is a high rank for an American to get in Judo from Japan...

    Mr. Fink has had a stroke, so I have no desire to question his Judo rank at this point, in any case, unless I was called upon by a Judo organization to verify or affirm his Judo rank.

    Which would be kind of silly, because I am only a Sandan in Judo, myself, so at best,

    I could only serve as an assistant to someone of the right higher rank than Mr. Fink's regarding validating his Judo rank.

    As neither Mr. Fink nor his "heirs" appear to be giving nor asking for Judo ranks, and in fact, the school does not seem to be advertising to teach or be actively rank people in Judo, I am unconcerned about that issue.

    Claims that Effective Self-Defense Arts are being Taught

    Now, we come to the final point, the martial arts being taught at the school.

    I believe that discussion is worthy of a thread in YMAS.

    Of course, being lazy, and interested in maximum efficiency with minimal effort, I made my comments about those arts on this thread.

    Because, frankly, at first I thought it was a YMAS thread.

    And because you seem to be implying that those arts are realistic, practical self-defense arts, which is its own kind of claim.

    I will add a final category, that I suspect many of my fellow bullshido posters will take issue with:

    Potentially Spurious Claims Maligning a Stroke Survivor, Retired Emergency Responder, and Vietnam Veteran

    I think the fact that Mr. Fink has had a stroke and is no longer actively teaching makes a lot of this discussion about whether he did this or that while he was in the service to be pointless, and actually in bad taste.

    He served in the military, overseas, probably taught some classes to other service people, traveled to Japan to study martial arts, is a retired emergency responder, and is a stroke survivor.

    That is good enough for me, regarding Mr. Fink.

    So, my best wishes for Mr. Fink.

    I appreciate Mr. Fink's military and emergency responder service.

    I am unconcerned that he reports he was ranked in Judo in Japan, because he does not seem to be teaching Judo or ranking people in Judo.

    And, regarding the arts being taught, I have no problem with people teaching larpidity-doodle-do arts, so long as they are upfront about it.

    If you make comments that the arts on display in the video links are practical and realistic self-defense, I reserve the right to disagree with that claim as a public service.
    Last edited by Dr. Gonzo; 2/11/2019 9:26am at .

  2. #62
    BKR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Gonzo View Post
    It is telling that the school's website does not say that any of the students besides Mr. Fink had ranks in Judo.

    And this implies that Mr. Fink was not teaching Judo at that school.

    And, it is a bit strange for a Godan in Judo, to not teach Judo, or abandon the teaching of Judo, if they are still fit enough to teach other arts.

    Even pretty wounded Judoka still have a hard time keeping themselves from showing Judo, or trying to inspire an interest in Judo, when they are on mats.

    Every BJJ school I walk into with any frequency ends up picking up an interest in Judo, even if they were formerly firmly butt scooters and guard pullers.

    Because while I am those mats, I inevitably start showing some Judo, or babbling about the virtues of Judo, etc.
    There is a connection between Sosuishi Ryu and Judo. Mr. Fink seems to have been fairly well connected in Japan. I'd be curious to know if he was/is fluent in Japanese.

    I just cannot remember exactly what that connection is or was. I THINK that Sosuishi Ryu was a supporter of Kano. I'd have to dig into stuff to find that out. Kano was always trying to get Koryu ryuha to "join" the Kodokan.

    If you look closely, they have kids classes, self-defense classes, and people are wearing colored belts. Koryu don't in general use colored belts. If they are teaching kids classes, I bet they are mostly Judo. After all Judo was in large part ju jutsu for kids (in the Japanese school system), and in large part looks like it does today because of that (IMO at least).
    Falling for Judo since 1980

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  3. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    There is a connection between Sosuishi Ryu and Judo. Mr. Fink seems to have been fairly well connected in Japan. I'd be curious to know if he was/is fluent in Japanese.

    I just cannot remember exactly what that connection is or was. I THINK that Sosuishi Ryu was a supporter of Kano. I'd have to dig into stuff to find that out. Kano was always trying to get Koryu ryuha to "join" the Kodokan.

    If you look closely, they have kids classes, self-defense classes, and people are wearing colored belts. Koryu don't in general use colored belts. If they are teaching kids classes, I bet they are mostly Judo. After all Judo was in large part ju jutsu for kids (in the Japanese school system), and in large part looks like it does today because of that (IMO at least).
    I called the school and asked if they had a kids Judo program.

    They said "no", they had a kids Jujutsu program, which was self defense oriented.

    The person on the phone went on to explain there was a difference between Judo, which was often very sportive, and their Jujutsu program, which was not sportive, but rather was self-defense oriented, even though some of the techniques were similar.

    I asked if they had an adults Judo class, and they said "no", but they have self-defense Jujutsu program for adults.

    Neither the website nor the person who answered the phone gives the impression that the school claims to teach Judo.

  4. #64
    BKR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Gonzo View Post
    I called the school and asked if they had a kids Judo program.

    They said "no", they had a kids Jujutsu program, which was self defense oriented.

    The person on the phone went on to explain there was a difference between Judo, which was often very sportive, and their Jujutsu program, which was not sportive, but rather was self-defense oriented, even though some of the techniques were similar.

    I asked if they had an adults Judo class, and they said "no", but they have self-defense Jujutsu program for adults.

    Neither the website nor the person who answered the phone gives the impression that the school claims to teach Judo.
    Right, I did not see any indication they were teaching Judo. I mean, Judo IS ju jutsu, but, that's a good way to start an usually unnecessary argument.

    I'm curious to see what their various self-defense programs involve.
    Falling for Judo since 1980

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    "The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

    "Banning BKR is like kicking a Quokka. It's foolishness of the first order." - Raycetpfl

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