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  1. #251

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    http://www.e-budo.com/forum/showpost...5&postcount=38

    here is another review of the seminar

    im looking forwards to next month. if it all works out ill be training with Akuzawa again while in japan.
    Last edited by hl1978; 2/14/2006 2:28pm at .

  2. #252

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    Is this serious? I'd like to see some vids lol.

  3. #253

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    there are videos elsewhere on this thread. other people on bullshido have worked out with them.

    im sure videos will surface on this thread from the recent seminar.

  4. #254

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    My first couple of posts here are turning out to be a bit long. So pass me the fucking vaseline! :thefinger

    Just thought you might be interested in a story of a genuine instructor turning to the dark side. I have a few theories as to why he changed, but they're just theories so I didn't go into them!

    Which brings me to jolly old Upyu (hi Rob) and the now legendary Akuzawa.

    First, let me explain I haven't read any of the testimonials of Akuzawa's seminars or indeed half of Rob's posts cos I find his posting style... a little enthusiastic shall we say!

    I studied at Akuzawa's class for about 3-4 months, can't remember, and have trained with kungfu rolling/sticky hands framework many many times with Rob and two of Akuzawa's other students.

    First the testimonial.

    Akuzawa is very good.

    The main reason I stopped training with him is because I don't have time to get to his class because of work. There are other reasons but I may not go into them today because these posts are growing like Upyu's stories! :tongue5:

    Training just a wee bit with Ark (I'll use his nickname cos it's shorter not through any particular claim of familiarity) gave me good cause and good means to reassess several training paradigms and principles I use. I still use some of his exercises pretty much every day, and I have noticed definite differences.

    OK, so the good points:

    1) He has the best root of anyone I've met.
    2) He has a hard punch.
    3) He has a hard kick (but by no means particularly different to say, a hard Thai kick like I've regularly experienced at my shooto class).
    4) He has a very good ability of changing levels very quickly (it's kind of the same as good root I guess - but it could easily make him extremely difficult to take down. Having said that my shooto instructor can drop his weight down as quickly and rootedly to go for the double-leg for example so again it's by no means unique).
    5) Now, this next one is the difficult one to explain which could lead to flakey-sounding bollocks. He has an uncanny ability to get to your centre of balance for uprooting, pushing or downwards crushing energy extremely quickly. This amounts to an extremely effective kuzushi and also effects his punching style I think, in that it leads to a really really penetrative punch that you can feel inside, knocking the wind out of you and causing you to lose your balance. This second aspect again is not unique: I've met it in boxing and wing chun. The first aspect... something similar but not as good in the best aikidoka I've met on occasion.

    IMO, through experimentation at the shooto school and with my wing chun group, the exercises I do from his school improved the following:

    (of course you should bear in mind that there may have been other influential factors, like for example strength, flexibility and whatever generally improving through increased shooto training - but I'm no newbie to this MA business and I think I know when an exercise is affecting me beneficially)

    a) My core strength improved: the flexibility and strength of my hips, inner thigh and abdominal muscles and the connectivity between these muscles (thus the power transfer from root to punch)
    b) My multiple-direction short-power improved. Don't have time to go into this especially, and I dare say that Bullshido has threads discussing this kind of ****, but I mean the kind of ability to eg, get good power into a short range elbow in any direction; get more relaxed, faster and stronger with my jabs in boxing; deliver more on a short range palm etc.
    c) My connectedness to my opponent's centre improved. Though this one may well be through increased practice and skill at the shooto too.
    d) Standing on the train has improved. OK OK so you're thinking, "Wha'?" but come on, you've all seen the pictures of Tokyo trains. They pack in till 270% capacity on average in the rush hour and you have to preserve your structural integrity against a whole carriage of swaying midgets (and some of these midgets are well over 6' these days you know!), without falling over into the next little 100 yr-old lady, or crushing the hot young chick next to you (well that one may be acceptible!)... This is with no stance, and sometimes a very compromised position... now if I can just find a martial application to this trick I'll be a fucking world beater! :D

    OK, now the meat.

    There are a few things I would say are problems with Ark's class and way of teaching etc. Some of these are probably more to do with Upyu's phrasing, but I've been typing this **** long enough so I'll let you distinguish (and Upyu if he replies, tho there is at least one unanswered question for him over on aikiweb). Also please note, I haven't trained with him since 2004 and I know he's changed the classes somewhat since then (I'm sure Upyu will put me straight on this one).

    1) There is (was?) no sparring. There is push hands tai chi style (but with more balls) but no sparring.

    2) The students suck. Can I say that!? OK, well it's a bit harsh but the students who were there when I was couldn't fight their way out of the proverbial wet paper bag. Of course I didn't spar with them, so they may have had a couple of tricks up their sleeves, but generally they couldn't punch or kick with any power and their balance was arse. That isn't necessarily a reflection on Ark I know, but it brings me onto Point 4. (BTW, when I first trained with Upyu I could pretty well slap him about at will and so could most of my wing chun bros... right Rob!? He did have a good line in holding onto your arms which he seemed to think would stop you whacking him a good one. For a long time he was singing the praises of Ark, but to no discernible difference in his own skills. Then, give him, and again Ark, their dues, the last time I rolled with him his root had improved, his short power had improved (for getting out of my holds, for striking my centre and for coming from any direction) and I felt like he was dangerous for the first time... haven't trained with him since, but I'm looking forward to meeting him at a throwdown or something over the summer or autumn again, cos I think he should be able to kick my ass and I might learn something.)

    3) He's a big guy. He's short but he has neck and shoulder muscles like an ox (albeit a small one) and very powerful abs, and relatively strong arms. Now he's no Schwarzenegger, and of course being big isn't a bad thing per se, but I do know that my friend who went along (who at 100 kg and pretty strong tho a bit on the podgy side) didn't feel anything internal, just that he was moved by strength. Again, I'm not saying that's bad, but if anybody claims that Ark's skills are anything internal and not the result of good body mechanics, I say 'crock-a-****'! Most of what he talks about is fulcrums and leverage.

    4) The training atmosphere. Ark has broad shoulders, and fucking huge chips on each of them! OK, so to be fair, this may have just been a personality clash.

    But whether it is or not, let me illustrate how this can affect what you are learning and what you are seeing/experiencing.

    The aiki straw attack

    He knew I had done aiki. He has preconceptions about aiki. He thinks he has sussed me out, and that I want to test him, my skill vs his, when all the time I'd just done the old 'make my mind an empty cup' thing and tried to ditch any preconceptions of his skills I may have had; including ANY idea of my skills vs his. He says, "Grab me and do a lock, aiki-style." He knows full well of course that anybody with a bit of grounding in aiki-based arts can stop an aiki tech which is when it goes to kaeshiwaza and henkawaza which basically leads to sparring and somebody gets fucked (esp on a wooden floor). He also knows full well that most aiki is difficult without movement (he is standing still in a neutral posture at the time), and he should know/probably knows that this means striking somebody if they're not moving. I tell him this just to make sure. He says, "Well just do an aiki-lock anyway,". I half-heartedly grab him, twist his arm and he throws me easily to the floor.

    Now, the onlookers (of course, he'd made it a little show for the class, of how easily aiki is defeated - at least that's what it felt like) see: Mr Punch making excuses about how the aiki isn't going to work because the conditions aren't right, Mr Punch making a puny aikido attack on Ark, and Ark disposing of Mr Punch's aikido self with ease. When all the time, both Mr Punch and Ark know full well that I'm not going to hit him and that my technique is doomed from the start, because I don't want to go into some bullshit half sparring thing: partly because he believes in old-skool training and I don't have good enough insurance to cover injury-related absence from work from bouncing my daft head off an unmatted surface, and partly because I want to see what he's got, what I can learn.

    The wing chun straw attack

    Ditto, similar demo with him exhorting me do do one of wing chun's famous roundhouse kicks. He tells me to kick him how I'd normally kick someone. So I say, "How's that then?" So he says, "Like you kick someone in your style," so I say, "Shooto? Wing chun? There're a lot of kicks in both," so he says, "Your main style, just give me a roundhouse to the leg or anywhere,". He knows my main style is wing chun, and despite having a couple of times given little sermons on how 'wing chun does this; but we do this' he obviously doesn't know wing chun (as wing chun doesn't have low roundhouses to the legs) or of course he knows Good Wing Chun (TM) which as we all know DOES have low roundhouses to the legs, but which is not taught in yes, you got it, 95% of wing chun schools! :rolleyes (But that's another story). Now again, I don't want to end up in hospital, so I hit him with some half arsed low roundhouse kick. And again, he fucks me up. Fair enough. But what the audience have seen and what actually happened are two different things.

    Incidentally, on both of the above occasions, and numerous others, the principles he was demonstrating were fucking mint! Very very good! But not shown against the Live Resisting Opponent (TM), despite the audience thinking that's what they were seeing.

    So when I see Upyu going on about Thai people, and kyokushin people and this people and that people coming in to Akuzawa's class and testing him, I wonder how much of it is nice polite people not wanting to come in hard in someone else's class.

    5) Non-dynamic drilling. The old aiki staple of 'you do this and I do this'. Thus, no chance to use a set-up.

    6) Straw-man tech demos. The video Upyu linked to the kicking demo (Thai style kicking first, then Ark's own). I've received this on the other side of the pad and with no protection. Ark does a Thai kick. But it isn't a Thai kick cos Ark doesn't do Thai. Then Ark does his own kick, which has a two step lead-in.

    Ark has a good kick; but the above demo is smoke and mirrors, and doesn't do justice to his style cos it makes him open to cries of Bullshido.

    7) Unsafe training practices. When I was there, Ark wasn't using mats. Don't know if it's different now. I can breakfall very well, and did so, but the fact remains is that injuries will go up a lot training without mats, and one day I might not be so lucky. Of course, this is the same in any MA training, but like I said, I have a job to go to.

    Included in these practices is the feeling that I got the impression that Ark doesn't do degrees of sparring, so if he did spar or you did come at him a little harder, he would really **** you up.

    I'm not calling bullshido on Akuzawa. He is very good. Just a couple of things to think about, and I'll come back some other time with some Qs for Rob.

    BTW, the pinky trick was quite good. He has very strong fingers, and if you are stupid enough to hang onto them he would probably be able to actually throw you with them.
    Last edited by Mr Punch; 2/19/2006 11:53am at . Reason: hoiked from another thread and corrected for sense.

  5. #255

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    Questions for Rob (Upyu).

    1) From aikiweb, a question you didn't answer:

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob
    "(None of the shooto guys over here in Japan want anything to do with him. He had a bad reputation over here about 8 years back since he tended to send his full contact students to the hospital)"
    Quote Originally Posted by Roy Dean
    You've mentioned this a few times. And the Shooto organization didn't try to recruit him? Or Pancrase? Or Pride? They're willing to pay foreign fighters tens of thousands of dollars, and have international tryouts for their organizations, but refuse to bring in a native son because he's too dangerous? Did the Shooto guys relay this information to you? How did you hear about this?
    From http://aikiweb.com/forums/showthread...1&page=4&pp=25

    2) Do you think sending your full-contact students to hospital is... a good idea?

    3) When you went to the Tomiki dojo in Kichijoji, and you said the guy couldn't move you, would you be prepared to admit that you went in there knowing how to stop aiki in the first place without the instructor taking a piece out of you, but you may not have known what kind of energetic he was trying to show you and had decided that he wouldn't be able to anything to you anyway, and thus were completely unresponsive and closed to any positive experience...? May be a leading question... :confused2 :icon_razz

    4) Back on aikiweb, you said that the move when Akuzawa got up from the ground where somebody was pinning him was it...? And he threw them without moving or something... ah **** it, what's that story again...?! And anyway, you said when I asked you to explain it, that it was 'just like kokyu dosa but from the ground'... can I just ask WTF does that mean in English!? :happy: What did he do?!

    5) What's 'groundpath' in Japanese and has Akuzawa ever used it? Did he use it before you, or is it something you keep on about to him? Just wondering, cos when I was there he was just talking about connections from your feet through your joints and into various fulcra... and didn't use any such expression.

  6. #256

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    Sup Punchy, it's been awhile yea? :)
    Damn u got lotz of time lol

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Punch
    The main reason I stopped training with him is because I don't have time to get to his class because of work. There are other reasons but I may not go into them today because these posts are growing like Upyu's stories! :tongue5:
    Actually they remain about as big as they ever were :tongue9:

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Punch
    3) He has a hard kick (but by no means particularly different to say, a hard Thai kick like I've regularly experienced at my shooto class).
    I'd say it's more penetrating, and Ark never claimed that he had a "harder" kick than Muay Thai kick. I'll go the extra mile and say that it's much more efficient though, considering how much energy you exert. (Since I can pretty much do it myself now to a lesser degree)


    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Punch
    4) He has a very good ability of changing levels very quickly (it's kind of the same as good root I guess - but it could easily make him extremely difficult to take down. Having said that my shooto instructor can drop his weight down as quickly and rootedly to go for the double-leg for example so again it's by no means unique).
    Again, might be a bit misleading, but it'S not the actual skill of dropping the weight, but the way he approaches that same skill. A simple way to put it is that he doesn't drop his weight for the sake of technique, this is the main difference in his approach.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Punch

    5) Now, this next one is the difficult one to explain which could lead to flakey-sounding bollocks. He has an uncanny ability to get to your centre of balance for uprooting, pushing or downwards crushing energy extremely quickly. This amounts to an extremely effective kuzushi and also effects his punching style I think, in that it leads to a really really penetrative punch that you can feel inside, knocking the wind out of you and causing you to lose your balance. This second aspect again is not unique: I've met it in boxing and wing chun. The first aspect... something similar but not as good in the best aikidoka I've met on occasion.
    The stuff he was showing Punchy back then was fairly basic stuff. Complete weight transfer backed up by the spine, plus a balancing back/forth equilibrium going on in the spine as the punch lands. He's demo'd much more complex body mechanics since then, and I'm starting to get a feel for how he executes stuff the way he does.

    Again, its a bit misleading to think that he was trying to demo that his punch had more power/speed etc than the best boxers etc.
    The other thing that might be hard for peeps to accept (and Punchy might call BS ;) ) is that Ark is probably using only like... a tenth of what he really has. Even when the force feels overwhelming :qbluewack


    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Punch
    Also please note, I haven't trained with him since 2004 and I know he's changed the classes somewhat since then (I'm sure Upyu will put me straight on this one).


    1) There is (was?) no sparring. There is push hands tai chi style (but with more balls) but no sparring.
    I could go on a long winded explanation of why that was at the time, but sparring is being introduced. Only he doesn't want to "break" the foundation that he's built up into the students. So you could say that's his own approach. That being said, he also encourages his students to go outside and spar with other people. Shooto, Kyokushin whatever. The class is a feedback mechanism to develop proper biomechanics and balance on a level that's not normally taught, but due to time constraints he pretty much he leaves it up to the students to work that bodyskill into sparring on their own. (Which is why I'm going to Rickson's school here in Tokyo now...and his **** does work wonders on the ground)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Punch

    2) The students suck. Can I say that!? OK, well it's a bit harsh but the students who were there when I was couldn't fight their way out of the proverbial wet paper bag. Of course I didn't spar with them, so they may have had a couple of tricks up their sleeves, but generally they couldn't punch or kick with any power and their balance was arse.
    Sure you can say that ;)
    But I could say the same for you too Punchy ;)
    Your overall balance was pretty horrible too at the time, and from Ark's perspecitive you were pretty much on the same level as us.
    Another thing I just want to point out, when Punchy came, the class had only been going for about 6 months at the time, and most people had been there a couple of months.

    I'd say if Punchy went now he'd be in for a surprise in the overall development of even the suckiest students.
    We've had a former kyokushin runner up join the class since then, and he's made the class interesting as well, since he provides the perfect example of power generation done the "normal" way vs the more effecient biomechanics which is what the class is about.

    Another thing, the class was still at the "easy" stage. The exercises done now are execrutiating compared to the stuff done back then, but it produces results :)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Punch
    3) He's a big guy. He's short but he has neck and shoulder muscles like an ox (albeit a small one) and very powerful abs, and relatively strong arms. Now he's no Schwarzenegger, and of course being big isn't a bad thing per se, but I do know that my friend who went along (who at 100 kg and pretty strong tho a bit on the podgy side) didn't feel anything internal, just that he was moved by strength. Again, I'm not saying that's bad, but if anybody claims that Ark's skills are anything internal and not the result of good body mechanics, I say 'crock-a-****'! Most of what he talks about is fulcrums and leverage.
    Well, depends on what you define as "internal". I can say that I undersand (and execute) his version of "moving" the insides. Some people might call it inner muscle, some might call it more spinal awareness, or some call it internal strength, whatever, the results the same.
    I'd suggest that Ark go back to Luan's original testimony, where he made the astute observation that Ark could get "leverage" in places that he shouldn't. "Like BJJ which emphasizes positioning and leverage...but without the positioning".
    Basically he's not using your "typical" strength, or using his muscles in a fashion that most would associate with strength. But like I said, feeling is believing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Punch

    4) The training atmosphere. Ark has broad shoulders, and fucking huge chips on each of them! OK, so to be fair, this may have just been a personality clash.
    Also to be fair, you have to admit you got a pretty huge ego yourself Punch :-D
    It's also natural, considering how long you've trained tho ;)
    My personal opinoin, you felt your own ego being thrown back at you.



    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Punch

    The aiki straw attack

    He knew I had done aiki. He has preconceptions about aiki. He thinks he has sussed me out, and that I want to test him, my skill vs his, when all the time I'd just done
    /snip
    Ok about this whole Aiki thing.
    He wasn't trying to make a point that Aikido was bad (tho lets be honest...we all know what the truth is right? :-D)
    but rather, most Aikido people do the techniques for the sake of doing them, without a proper physical foundation. Since Punchy had poor balance/connectivity, it wouldn't matter whether Ark gave punchy something to work with. On top of which, even from a neutral position, if Punchy had a modiocum of a developed body, Ark would've acknoledged that, but he didn't so Ark uncerimoniously dumped him on the floor. It was more a point emphasizing that the body has to be properly ...er what's the mma term? Conditioned? before you can do those kind of techniques.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Punch

    Ditto, similar demo with him exhorting me do do one of wing chun's famous roundhouse kicks. He tells me to kick him how I'd normally kick someone. So I say, /snip
    And ditto on the kicking demo. He was trying to explain the difference between kicking for kicking's sake, vs kicking as being a natural result of your properly conditioned (connected, etc) body. One being more efficient than the others.
    And none of them were assumed to be situations against a Live Resisting Opponent, but rather showing differences in body useage using those principals.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Punch

    So when I see Upyu going on about Thai people, and kyokushin people and this people and that people coming in to Akuzawa's class and testing him, I wonder how much of it is nice polite people not wanting to come in hard in someone else's class.
    Well, actually most of them give their best shot... Luan did ;)
    I think Punchy was afraid that Ark would open a can of whoopass on him if he did. That's simply not true. But even when he's gentle it can be more than disconcerting, even for me. It actually only hints at his true potential.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Punch
    5) Non-dynamic drilling. The old aiki staple of 'you do this and I do this'. Thus, no chance to use a set-up.
    We don't do drilling for drilling's sake. Punchy totally missed the point of one of the exercises, or there's a parallel universe with a different class that Punchy attended where he do "drills".

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Punch
    7) Unsafe training practices. When I was there, Ark wasn't using mats. Don't know if it's different now. I can breakfall very well, and did so, but the fact remains is that injuries will go up a lot training without mats, and one day I might not be so lucky. Of course, this is the same in any MA training, but like I said, I have a job to go to.
    I dunno, I used to train on Concrete back in college and I was fine :)
    Besides which the bodyskill that ark teaches does lend itself to being able to take ukemi that I daresay is superior than what you see it your typical Judo place.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Punch
    BTW, the pinky trick was quite good. He has very strong fingers, and if you are stupid enough to hang onto them he would probably be able to actually throw you with them.
    His fingers look strong, as does his frame...but it's misleading. I've felt his muscles when he executes his moves, and they're extremely relaxed. His body fat, or lack of it gives off the misleading impression that he exerts a lot when he moves ;)
    Btw...I can do the finger trick too, with my index. The more muscle a guy has, the more it works against them, has to do with whole body connectivity. It has nothing to do with the strength of the fingers.

    To sum it up, Punch wasn't there long enough and it's a shame we don't have him now...though I'm sure I'll see him at a throwdown sometime soon. :)
    Punch, you need to bring some peeps from the Kaminari dojo to Arks...let them see if he's worth training with on the side, who know's what might happen :tongue2:

  7. #257

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Punch
    1) From aikiweb, a question you didn't answer:

    From http://aikiweb.com/forums/showthread...1&page=4&pp=25

    2) Do you think sending your full-contact students to hospital is... a good idea?

    3) When you went to the Tomiki dojo in Kichijoji, and you said the guy couldn't move you, would you be prepared to admit that you went in there knowing how to stop aiki in the first place without the instructor taking a piece out of you, but you may not have known what kind of energetic he was trying to show you and had decided that he wouldn't be able to anything to you anyway, and thus were completely unresponsive and closed to any positive experience...? May be a leading question... :confused2 :icon_razz

    4) Back on aikiweb, you said that the move when Akuzawa got up from the ground where somebody was pinning him was it...? And he threw them without moving or something... ah **** it, what's that story again...?! And anyway, you said when I asked you to explain it, that it was 'just like kokyu dosa but from the ground'... can I just ask WTF does that mean in English!? :happy: What did he do?!

    5) What's 'groundpath' in Japanese and has Akuzawa ever used it? Did he use it before you, or is it something you keep on about to him? Just wondering, cos when I was there he was just talking about connections from your feet through your joints and into various fulcra... and didn't use any such expression.
    First question:
    That was a long time ago, and no he doesn'T do that anymore. But its more a testiment to levels of extremes he's been to.

    Second question:
    I know this bites into your Aikido background, but that particular Tomiki place sucked. I'm not being close minded, I kept it open until I touched hands with them, felt that they had almost zero conditioning/body connectivity and realized that it was crap. Sorry to be harsh, but that's the reality.

    Third Question:
    I can replicate the movement. It has to do with standing with the spine. So yea you can call it Kokyu Dosa from the ground if it makes you happy. I've used the same bodyskill in BJJ numerous times to get out of situations where I should be totally fucked as a beginner. (In fact most people can't believe I've only had about 4 classes on groundfighting/man loving...they think I either took wrestling, or I'm lying)

    Fourth Question:
    It's a term Mike Sigman uses, I adopted, and consequently ark adopted as well.
    It's just easier to use since it implies all those connectivities that he talked about when you were there.

  8. #258

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    Quote Originally Posted by Upyu
    Sup Punchy, it's been awhile yea? :)
    Damn u got lotz of time lol
    Sup. No not much so I'm gonna make these couple of posts my last. Probably. :icon_bigg

    Plus, as at least us two have established Akuzawa as not Bullshido, and since we're pretty much agreeing with each other and the good trolls round here aren't gonna be interested in so much peace and love, it's time to call it a day.



    I'd say it's more penetrating, and Ark never claimed that he had a "harder" kick than Muay Thai kick. I'll go the extra mile and say that it's much more efficient though, considering how much energy you exert. (Since I can pretty much do it myself now to a lesser degree)
    Fair enough. Your welcome to that opinion. They both feel pretty fucking hard to me. And didn't bring any energy measuring equipment, but I wouldn't have said the Thai kick is especially wasteful.

    By the way, I didn't say Ark claimed he had a harder kick, but I seem to remember you claiming something of that nature on aikiweb...?

    Again, might be a bit misleading, but it'S not the actual skill of dropping the weight, but the way he approaches that same skill. A simple way to put it is that he doesn't drop his weight for the sake of technique, this is the main difference in his approach.
    I knoiw what you're saying. With Ark, as I remember everything is principle esp structure, not tech. But please note in my post I used the words 'for example'.

    If my shooto teacher drops his weight he's not necessarily going down for a double leg or any other tech, that was just the example I used. He uses a similar analogy to how Ark describes the horse stance, with the dropping your weight but keeping the lightness and springiness at the same time. And like Ark, if he goes down, it's primarily to maintain structure: for example a strong structure from which to give off a multidirectional short-range attack like a shoot, or to maintain a stable structure like going into a sprawl: from either of which if he misses he can be back up in a second without sacrificing structure. Sounds more similar to Ark if I put it like that no?

    The stuff he was showing Punchy back then was fairly basic stuff...Again, its a bit misleading to think that he was trying to demo that his punch had more power/speed etc than the best boxers etc.
    The other thing that might be hard for peeps to accept (and Punchy might call BS ;) ) is that Ark is probably using only like... a tenth of what he really has. Even when the force feels overwhelming :qbluewack
    Agreed on my only having learnt some basic stuff.

    But then you're putting words in my mouth. I didn't make the comparison to boxers etc (and I certainly didn't say best - don't think I've met any of those!) to suggest that that was Ark's reason to demo his punches (tho, he did often start out with, 'A boxer punches like this...'). The reason I used the comparison was to try and make the level of power more easily understandable in case anybody else was reading this, rather than going on about 'groundpath'!

    You're framing my expression in conflict. There is none. I was just explaining as clearly as I could for anyone who cared round here.

    And no, I wouldn't call your next supposition BS. I would however suggest that your use of 'probably' and 'like' is all important here. You have no way to know how much of his total power he is using. Your whole statement is therefore hyperbolic.

    (About no sparring)
    I could go on a long winded explanation of why that was at the time, but sparring is being introduced. Only he doesn't want to "break" the foundation that he's built up into the students. So you could say that's his own approach.
    It wouldn't have to be long-winded! ... buuut I know you somewhat! :laughing6 :thefinger Many arts don't spar at first, and believe in building a strong body structure and base first. That's the explanation he gave me at the time, and I'm no stranger to that approach. I don't think it's his own, and I only mentioned it as a point of interest to anyone reading. SOME people think it's a bad approach.

    (Which is why I'm going to Rickson's school here in Tokyo now...and his **** does work wonders on the ground)
    Interesting statement. You are looking at things thru Ark-coloured specs. Maybe you're right. And maybe you're indentifying factors that are to complicated to isolate: maybe you're just a natural!? Anyway, I've no reason to disbelieve your statement, but it's by no means evidence per se of 'his ****'.

    Sure you can say that ;)
    But I could say the same for you too Punchy ;)
    Your overall balance was pretty horrible too at the time, and from Ark's perspecitive you were pretty much on the same level as us.
    Another thing I just want to point out, when Punchy came, the class had only been going for about 6 months at the time, and most people had been there a couple of months.
    Actually, it was a bit of a shitty thing to say I know, but this IS Bullshido! I didn't know the class had only been going for 6 months so that's fair enough. Incidentally, I wasn't including you in that statement.

    I do wonder about how you would qualify your statement about my balance but... meh, who cares! Most people seem to think it's good, and the only move I constantly had trouble with was that breakdancing 360 deg 'footsweep' (and yes I know it was a principle not a tech), and that was not a balance problem.

    I'd say if Punchy went now he'd be in for a surprise in the overall development of even the suckiest students.
    You might well say that. You don't know me very well really do you? But you do seem to think you know what I'd be surprised at.

    We've had a former kyokushin runner up join the class since then, ...
    Cool. I would, as I said, still like to come back.

    Well, depends on what you define as "internal". ... But like I said, feeling is believing.
    I don't try and define internal. Mostly I just punch things.

    I've felt it don't forget. My point about the 'internal' thing is that I don't see any difference between a good external tech (say a good boxing punch again!) and good internal 'spinal awareness'/ki/groundpath or whatever. It's all good body mechanics.

    And don't mistake the simplicity of the above statement for ignorance. I've gone into that kind of **** practically, and mentally and talking to good folks more hours than I care to remember. That's just the conclusion.

    And yeah, I know what Luan was talking about.

    Also to be fair, you have to admit you got a pretty huge ego yourself Punch :-D
    It's also natural, considering how long you've trained tho ;)
    My personal opinoin, you felt your own ego being thrown back at you.
    LOL :lol:

    I don't have to admit anything of the sort! I will admit it's a possibility tho ;)

    In all fairness, I didn't connect with Ark at all. In fact it was a disturbing lack of connectedness I've never before experienced in quite a helluva lotta human interaction! And in all fairness, I did say it may have just been a personality thing, ie, nobody's to blame (before you had to go throwing the ad hominems in there!).

    But I do know, I went in there as completely an empty cup as anyone can be. I didn't say anything about training history until pressed, and I certainly didn't expect or want or see the point of being held up as, for example, an example of aikido, or an example of wing chun, or an example of shooto. I expected to be treated like anyone else. And then even when I did tell him my opinion of aikido, which is pretty much the same as his, he ignored me and still asked me to come at him with 'an aiki-style lock or something' knowing full well that both of us knew it was gonna be bollocks.

    As far as my training history goes, I have no illusions or specific attachments to it. I learned some good aiki. It was good cos I used some of the things I learned in it to help save my ass a couple of times, and my brother's and my friend's! On the door, in the street, in bars etc. Is it good against Teh Ultimate Bullshido-Proof UFC Fighter (TM). No fucking way, but if we go back to principles I have used some aiki and wing chun principles sparring full contact at shooto. Some of them work, some of them are low-percentage. None of them would look like aiki/wing chun but do I give a ****?

    Ok about this whole Aiki thing.
    He wasn't trying to make a point that Aikido was bad (tho lets be honest...we all know what the truth is right? :-D)
    but rather, most Aikido people do the techniques for the sake of doing them, without a proper physical foundation. Since Punchy had poor balance/connectivity, it wouldn't matter whether Ark gave punchy something to work with. On top of which, even from a neutral position, if Punchy had a modiocum of a developed body, Ark would've acknoledged that, but he didn't so Ark uncerimoniously dumped him on the floor. It was more a point emphasizing that the body has to be properly ...er what's the mma term? Conditioned? before you can do those kind of techniques.
    Again, you're assuming I'm coming at it trying to defend aiki. I couldn't give a flying **** about aiki. Aiki's ****. I only care about my training history in the parts that have helped me (see above). So of course it was nothing to Ark, which I had hoped he understood. Obviously he hadn't, cos he still held me up as an example of aiki!

    That fact is, at that time in that demo, he gave me nothing, and I let him throw me easily. The fact that I knew he could have easily swept me anyway meant there was no fucking way I was going to resist on a hardwood floor. And that's the safety issue I was talking about later.

    I know I can breakfall on wood and ashphalt and concrete because I have. I also know if I **** it up just a little I can get fucked up real bad, because I've been tackled in the street on concrete, and was unable to walk straight for several days and still have recurring problems. It ain't worth the risk.

    I'm not moaning, and I'm not dissing his skills at all. I'm just saying. Safety is an unavoidable factor.

    So as to your my being afraid of can of whoopass or whatever, again wrong: not afraid, not over the hill, just experienced in having had that kind of whoopass!


    We don't do drilling for drilling's sake. Punchy totally missed the point of one of the exercises, or there's a parallel universe with a different class that Punchy attended where he do "drills".
    Nah. I know. So it seems you missed my point. Fair enough. I didn't make it very clearly.

    I was talking again about the set-up where I got to come in with BS 'attacks'. Again, doesn't mean I'm dissing him, just that I couldn't see the point of using me as a physical straw man in unrealistic settings. And no, no bruised ego, I just couldn't see the point.

    His fingers look strong, as does his frame...but it's misleading. I've felt his muscles when he executes his moves, and they're extremely relaxed.
    I know already! **** me mate, you've been on the net too long! Who said Americans don't understand irony? :thefinger Of course there's no way anyone could throw you with just the strength of their fingers, just like there's no way anyone would be stupid enough to hang on! I know it's a demo! Jesus H.

    To sum it up, Punch wasn't there long enough and it's a shame we don't have him now...though I'm sure I'll see him at a throwdown sometime soon. :)
    Thanks honey, you bring the lube. (That's a joke too!)

    Punch, you need to bring some peeps from the Kaminari dojo to Arks...let them see if he's worth training with on the side, who know's what might happen :tongue2:
    I don't represent Kaminari, I train there (when I'm not in fucking hospital!), and those boys are the same as most people mate, they work hard in ¥900 an hr jobs, they train hard, and no matter how good Ark's class would be for them they ain't gonna have the luxury of going. I'm only not there cos I work my bollocks off too! :(

    It's a shame but Thai boxers train Thai, wrestlers train wrestling, and people who can't afford both train shooto. C'est la vie. Most people aren't interested, rich or free enough to check out something new 'cos it's the ****'! They're not all freaks like us! :)

  9. #259

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
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    Tokyo
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    shooto (MMA), _ng_n, aiki
    I'm boring myself here.

    So before you Bullshido boys slip into a coma:
    Quote Originally Posted by Upyu
    First question:
    That was a long time ago, and no he doesn'T do that anymore. But its more a testiment to levels of extremes he's been to.
    You're still not answering WHO 'in shooto' didn't wanna know. Is this something you surmised or is it from Ark? Does he even know what you're writing about him?

    Second question:
    I know this bites into your Aikido background, but that particular Tomiki place sucked.
    No, I'll reiterate: you don't 'KNOW'! Nothing bites my aiki background, I know the score, I know the bad points better than you and the good points better than you. I've discarded the **** and kept the rest (tho that's a slim file! :lol: )

    Fair enough on your opinion. Haven't been there. Was just my impression that maybe you hadn't offered them the same balance that you expect people to offer Akuzawa.

    Third Question:
    I can replicate the movement. It has to do with standing with the spine. So yea you can call it Kokyu Dosa from the ground if it makes you happy. I've used the same bodyskill...
    YOU called it kokyu dosa from the ground on aikiweb, not me. I'd still like you to have a go at explaining it, since it seems to defy the laws of physics. If it'll take too long, since nobody else on this forum seems to give a ****, have a go over a drink or something sometime!

    (In fact most people can't believe I've only had about 4 classes on groundfighting/man loving...they think I either took wrestling, or I'm lying)
    Pah, so you say! I think you've had a lot of experience of man-loving! :lol:

    Fourth Question:
    It's a term Mike Sigman uses, I adopted, and consequently ark adopted as well.
    It's just easier to use since it implies all those connectivities that he talked about when you were there.
    Ah, Mike Sigman the aikiflake? Er sorry, respected MA writer? WTF did Ark use to call it before 'groundpath' came along?! :lol:

  10. #260

    Join Date
    Jan 2004
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    Tokyo
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    Aunkai, Tokyo
    This'll be my last post on all this. I swear :angel7:

    I think we're pretty much on the same page, though if you ask my honest opinoin, my responses only came from how you framed your responses, and it turned out we were pretty much on the same page. :love8: lolz

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Punch
    So before you Bullshido boys slip into a coma:You're still not answering WHO 'in shooto' didn't wanna know. Is this something you surmised or is it from Ark? Does he even know what you're writing about him?

    YOU called it kokyu dosa from the ground on aikiweb, not me. I'd still like :angry5: you to have a go at explaining it, since it seems to defy the laws of physics. If it'll take too long, since nobody else on this forum seems to give a ****, have a go over a drink or something sometime!
    The Shooto stuff came from his mouth. I didn't get names, but knowing his skill, I don't think he has any reason to pull my leg. He mentioned specifically that his friends used to train with Satoru Sayama, and he used to be in the whole mma scene back in the mid nineties (close to its inception you could say). And yes he knows I'm posting some of this stuff...tho he did say he'd kick my ass if all this trolling doesn't land any potential students to come check out the class :angry5:

    About the stuff from the ground,
    Sorry, didn't mean to imply that you were insisting on that term ^^;
    Actually the ground stuff makes perfect physical sense.
    The explanation is probably going to bore those here on Bullshido, but I'll iterate, since I know it'll make your day /jk
    Groundpath starts at whatever contacts the ground. The feet are important, but aren't all important. Two points on the spine, the base of the neck, and the base of the spine need to be aligned if you want to generate power/stability through that groundpath. Wrestlers know this too I think (simply through sheer fucking hard training), and I'm pretty sure that the top grapplers use this as well.
    You can also still use the connection from the feet (even if they're not touching the ground) to add to your over all structure. I'd have to show this to you physically since no amount of howling over the internet is going to amount to anything :eng101: But I'm pretty sure once I show you the "trick", you'll see what I'm talking about.


    Pece out!

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