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  1. #151

    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    BS USA
    Posts
    4
    Style
    Shorin Ryu
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Reply to the OP

    My father moves a lot for his work.
    My first MA was TKD. I worked very hard, went to class 5 times a week and practiced katas and other on my own time and off days.
    The cutest girl in class came to class 2 times a week. All my katas, punches, kicks were way better than hers. But she was cuter.
    She got promoted at the same rate as me. Now I am 2 strips green belt, as is she.
    We were this young black belts first class and school. He would often go to the corner while class in session and fart into the corner.
    After he did this, he showed us new technique, how to get out of hold if opponent is on top of you pinning your wrists. He said to lean up
    and kiss opponent on the lips. Opponent would jump up in terror and run away, he said.
    I was excited about taking Karate and wanted to still work hard in spite of what to me was unknown Bullshido. I wanted to go all the way to black belt. One night I walked into class wearing a black stripe on my white gi and was quickly told to leave and take it off because I was not a black belt. I did, and came back in wearing blue jeans.
    Then, at first of month, we just paid our monthly dues, one poor guy just paid entire year in advance, and we showed up at dojo but everything was empty. We found out new black belt teacher had cashed all our dues, took cutest girl in class and left the state. That was the end of my TKD career. I am glad after a long time now, he left, he had white belt in character and I didn't have to learn 'fart in corner' technique to advance to purple belt. Our black belt teacher QUIT us, we didn't have to quit him.

    My next attempt was aikido. (I was already learning advanced techniques on Bullshido, having learned from former Black belt teacher)
    Our sensei was 8th degree BB and told us grand stories how he trained with Bruce Lee, Steven Seagal, and Gene Lebell. Red flags should have been going up around my head. Before joining class, I asked sensei if any katas would be done (as I am suspicious of too much kata practice.) He said, No. Maybe only a little when we get to bo and weapons practice. So the first class, what do we immediately do? We do walking kata, and do it every single class at the beginning of class. It was a LONG kata. There were two new 1st degree black belts in class.
    Again, I practiced 7 days a week. Mostly learning this walking kata. After 3 weeks, I learned it. . . and noticed the two black belts were doing some of it wrong. But they had big beer bellies and looked like they could sprint a 100 yard dash in 30 seconds for their main workout so I said nothing. I learned it by watching youtube and an original master doing it.
    We trained hard, trying to learn 17 ways what to do if someone grabs your wrist. Sensei said THAT is the most common thing that will
    happen in a real situation, 95% of the time, to grab your wrist. (not someone throwing haymaker or shoving you). The two black belts seemed a bit arrogant to me and I noticed that in class, there was 90% talk and 10% actual doing. I am lowly white belt so say nothing.
    I think I coulda whipped both of them. I asked them once, what they did after class. Both said the same, we go home and eat pizza and have a few beers.
    A squeaky, mousey woman, about 40 years old and 95 lbs with wet gi on, got promoted to the next belt, yellow. I noticed that sensei, Gene LeBells buddy and partner, was not teaching the class much now, it was the 2 new black belts...and on my last class, wet gi 95 lb woman is trying to teach me the 6th method to avoid wrist grab. She got confused and ended up showing her how.
    All this time, the higher belt you were, the later you came in to class. Quickly I figured out that those people on time or who showed up early, like me, were the ones to place all mats out. So I sat on mat, waiting for black belts to show up, 5 minutes after class time.
    Also the last class, sensei was there for 15 minutes to show us new technique...then he had to mysteriously leave dojo and his black belts and yellow belt 95 lb took over. New technique was step on opponents foot and twist...this was supposed to make your wince in pain and fall quickly to the ground. Sensei told us to go ahead an fall so as to not get badly hurt. Yellow belt 95 lb did it to me and I was NOT to resist, but to fall immediately. Sensei slipped out of dojo. Yellow belt practiced on me to teach me this technique.
    That was my last class there and the end of my aikido. I think I gained 5 lbs in those 5 weeks, learning the walking kata and deadly techniques. I was starting to wish I knew the farting in corner technique.
    Still determined, I found and joined Krav Maga school. The teacher was no nonsense ex cop, ex military guy who everyone called by his first name, not master or grand master. I asked him could I wear black to class. He looked at me puzzled. I asked, or red or blue or any color. Did he mind what color I wore to class. He finally got it, and said, "oh, hell no. Colors don't mean much in here. We just show you how to end a fight quickly, in under 3 to 5 seconds. For the first 20 mins of class, he ran us ragged until we were about to pass out. Then he showed us how to punch left, right then some Muay Thai kick to opponents belly. Then showed us how to throw a front snap kick to rushing opponent. Then how to get out of front choke, then out of headlock. I daydreamed for 2 seconds, wishing my former pizza/beer black belts were here doing this. By the end of 1.5 hours, I was wasted. This was all in the first class. After class, sitting down resting, the teacher came over and talked nutrition and how it's good to eat properly and not do drugs or alcohol. He spoke how Royce Gracie did juice, ran 10 miles in the morning and weighed about the same 170 something lbs after 25 years. I thought great stuff, I found the MA I can believe in.
    Two months later, I regretfully found out I had to move to another town far away.

  2. #152

    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    66
    Style
    Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu
    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    There were two moments that made me question my school and association. After these two moments, that's when things went downhill. I started talking to other martial artists, posting on forums, and even respectfully tested my skills against my brother, who has some MMA experience.

    1. My black belt equivalency test. I say "equivalency" because we don't have belts in Wing Tsun. Instead, we have student grades. 9th student grade is considered a black belt in the association of which I was a part. There were two other guys testing with me and they were garbage. They couldn't even perform the basics. To put this into perspective, it would be like a 4 striped brown belt who is testing for his black belt in BJJ not knowing how to execute an arm bar. It was shameful to watch, because I had worked hard.

    Honestly, my instructor, friends who weren't testing, and myself thought they were going to fail. The students in question thought they were going to fail, too. You could read it on their faces. The testing instructor gave this glaringly transparent speech about how their performances were weak, how she wanted them to work on certain techniques, and then hesitantly passed them. Like, "You didn't do great, but here you go, you barely passed." I couldn't believe it. Earlier that year, in the summer, I was told similar stories of how people who had no idea what they were doing were passed, too. This didn't seem right to me, so I started doing some research...

    2. Retrospective demotion. Since I passed my test, I was now an assistant instructor. 9th level students are rewarded with a black shirt, unlike lower ranking students who have to wear white. A couple of weeks later, my instructor gets a call from the president of the association. The president informs my instructor that black shirts are no longer considered assistant instructors. My instructor asked if this was "retrospective," that is, if it applied to the latest batch of black shirts (myself and the other guys I tested with). The president said yes, my instructor accepted it, and hung up the phone.

    I couldn't believe it. I was half-training half-paying attention to the phone call. Some of the other instructors there saw the disappointment in my face and tried to take my mind off of it by explaining more techniques, but it didn't work at all. I was devastated because I worked hard to achieve this position and I was stripped of it. I continued to go to class for a month or so, but in the meantime I continued doing research. I asked hundreds of people online and martial artists that I knew and, in short, 99% of them told me to GTFO.

    So, I did. It's one of the greatest decisions I've made in my life.

  3. #153

    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    844
    Style
    Aikido/JJJ/Judo/GoJu Ryu
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Are you doing something else instead?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  4. #154
    Raycetpfl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Tampa Fl
    Posts
    5,523
    Style
    Gracie Jiu Jitsu
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DavyKOTWF View Post
    .
    Still determined, I found and joined Krav Maga school. The teacher was no nonsense ex cop, ex military guy who everyone called by his first name, not master or grand master. I asked him could I wear black to class. He looked at me puzzled. I asked, or red or blue or any color. Did he mind what color I wore to class. He finally got it, and said, "oh, hell no. Colors don't mean much in here. We just show you how to end a fight quickly, in under 3 to 5 seconds. For the first 20 mins of class, he ran us ragged until we were about to pass out. Then he showed us how to punch left, right then some Muay Thai kick to opponents belly. Then showed us how to throw a front snap kick to rushing opponent. Then how to get out of front choke, then out of headlock. I daydreamed for 2 seconds, wishing my former pizza/beer black belts were here doing this. By the end of 1.5 hours, I was wasted. This was all in the first class. After class, sitting down resting, the teacher came over and talked nutrition and how it's good to eat properly and not do drugs or alcohol. He spoke how Royce Gracie did juice, ran 10 miles in the morning and weighed about the same 170 something lbs after 25 years. I thought great stuff, I found the MA I can believe in.
    Two months later, I regretfully found out I had to move to another town far away.
    cool story bro. Krav is generally bullshido as well. ending fights quickly in "3-5 seconds" takes years of training,luck and the other combatant being completely out classed, not 5 classes. Krav pretends nut shots are kill shots. they are not. Krav pretends all their students have knockout power. Most don't and never will due to being small,slow,weak and they have poor training and technical ability.

  5. #155
    solves problems with violence supporting member
    Ming Loyalist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    5,117
    Style
    Judo, Hung Family Boxing
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by red_cloak View Post
    There were two moments that made me question my school and association. After these two moments, that's when things went downhill. I started talking to other martial artists, posting on forums, and even respectfully tested my skills against my brother, who has some MMA experience.

    1. My black belt equivalency test. I say "equivalency" because we don't have belts in Wing Tsun. Instead, we have student grades. 9th student grade is considered a black belt in the association of which I was a part. There were two other guys testing with me and they were garbage. They couldn't even perform the basics. To put this into perspective, it would be like a 4 striped brown belt who is testing for his black belt in BJJ not knowing how to execute an arm bar. It was shameful to watch, because I had worked hard.

    Honestly, my instructor, friends who weren't testing, and myself thought they were going to fail. The students in question thought they were going to fail, too. You could read it on their faces. The testing instructor gave this glaringly transparent speech about how their performances were weak, how she wanted them to work on certain techniques, and then hesitantly passed them. Like, "You didn't do great, but here you go, you barely passed." I couldn't believe it. Earlier that year, in the summer, I was told similar stories of how people who had no idea what they were doing were passed, too. This didn't seem right to me, so I started doing some research...

    2. Retrospective demotion. Since I passed my test, I was now an assistant instructor. 9th level students are rewarded with a black shirt, unlike lower ranking students who have to wear white. A couple of weeks later, my instructor gets a call from the president of the association. The president informs my instructor that black shirts are no longer considered assistant instructors. My instructor asked if this was "retrospective," that is, if it applied to the latest batch of black shirts (myself and the other guys I tested with). The president said yes, my instructor accepted it, and hung up the phone.

    I couldn't believe it. I was half-training half-paying attention to the phone call. Some of the other instructors there saw the disappointment in my face and tried to take my mind off of it by explaining more techniques, but it didn't work at all. I was devastated because I worked hard to achieve this position and I was stripped of it. I continued to go to class for a month or so, but in the meantime I continued doing research. I asked hundreds of people online and martial artists that I knew and, in short, 99% of them told me to GTFO.

    So, I did. It's one of the greatest decisions I've made in my life.
    just want to point out that *traditionally* in CMA there were no *ranks* other than "instructor" and "student". it was quite binary, either your sifu gave you permission to teach or he did not. of course there are specific terms for hierarchy within a kwoon, based on the family system of brothers, sisters, uncles, etc., but there were *not* rank. the guy who started training before you was your older brother, it didn't matter if he never got good and you got permission to open a school. older brother. period.

    see what all that rank nonsense brought to the table? ignoring the fact that it's a shite martial art and gives you **** all in terms of fighting skill, you left an organization you had been with for years and worked hard at *over rank*. the only thing rank brings to the table in CMA is $$$.
    "Face punches are an essential character building part of a martial art. You don't truly love your children unless you allow them to get punched in the face." - chi-conspiricy
    "When I was a little boy, I had a sailor suit, but it didn't mean I was in the Navy." - Mtripp on the subject of a 5 year old karate black belt
    "Without actual qualifications to be a Zen teacher, your instructor is just another roundeye raping Asian culture for a buck." - Errant108
    "Seriously, who gives a **** what you or Errant think? You're Asian males, everyone just ignores you, unless you're in a krotty movie." - new2bjj

  6. #156

    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    484
    Style
    Bjj
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Awesome thread, read every reply.

    When i was 5 i was being bullied so wanted to learn how to beat on my bullies. Since they did karate i thought ill do that as its something i recognise and its often labelled with 'self defence'. Did two classes and liked it, it came for the sitdown about signing up. Dad was recently unemployed along with 400 other workers from his old work. Knowing this it weighed on me and i said no to karate and taught my self to brawl at school.

    One such fight i faced off with a bullies bro who made tiger noises and king fu style hand motions. He clawed my face and all i landed was a kick to his shin. I decided i didnt want to continue and ran before i lost an eye (note: cat boy used to hang with girls and the cat fu wasnt inspired by actual kung fu, he later in life ended up a homo which everyone knew would happen).

    When i was 14 i tried my hand at wu-shu. It was in a humid back room of a store front. I was the only kid there, everyone else were in their mid 20s or above. After a few months i was confident in my forms and some kicks and asked sifu about if there were comps or anything. He said (in broken english) there were but it was 'only for show'. I left when the term was up (terms were quarterly). I joined hapkido 2 weeks after that and did that for 5 months and stopped as i got a job after school which interupted my training times so i stopped hapkido. I still remember some stuff and one of the bb instructera said there was a grading coming up and i knew what i had to as a white belt and was good enough to go for it.

    Excited i went for it and on the day (after paying money to sit the test) i find out the hard way at the start of the grading you had to individually recite like these 10 commandment esque values. Apart from not knowing these and looking like a fool infront of everyone and my parents i did the techs well and did a sort of randori with a higher student (blue belt in his 30s) who demolished me, i remember he did a tech where he grabbed my lapels on the gi, fell on his back and launched me over head with his legs. I flew across the room and landed at some spectators feet. Was a humiliating day for me. As mentioned got a job and quit.

    At 19 i joined a muay thai gym but only went to the boxing classes as thats what i wanted to do. All the good dedicated boxing gyms were to far to travel to after work so id never get there in time. Didnt stay at the mt place long, it had poor hygene (dirty mats, place smelt and equipment was past their retirement age). The instructors were good, the mt guys were elitists and looked at anyone who hadnt fought as inferior.

    I used to hate sparring with the chicks cos i was told to not hit them as hard by the coach. But they would pound me, so one day i thought it was bs and increased my power a little and one chick was like 'can you not hit as hard' but she kept pounding me. I left and just went to a regular gym to keep fit.

    At almost 24 i was looking for a boxing gym again but found a local 'tactical krav maga' place. I knew a little about km but nothing solid, so i went in for an intro class which was before the main class and nothing like the main class (was just some minor pad work and a little basic knowledge on what they focus on) seemed straight foward but i was intrigued especially by the van and small room with tight cooridor they used for scenarios. So i signed up and was doing 5 hours a week and when i became advanced 8-10 hours. Went to a few seminars that had guys from israel (a different person per seminar). They all said the same thing about when they travel the globe they see the same crap being taught. The best one was by lior offenbach, hes probably the real deal with km. I say this cos hes a blue belt in bjj and owns or at least co owns and trains in a muay thai gym. He was a good fun instructor and too the point. He didnt care too much how you strike but aslong as you strike and keep fighting to you win (none of this bs 2-3 strikes to a complient partner like i was used to) his policy was "we're not in the bussiness of just hurting our attacker, we want to put them out of comission". His disarms i didnt like especially the ones from behind. His non weapons stuff was great. 6 months later i got to train with itay gil, former israeli yamam captain with 14 years experience in that unit. Hard guy but nice, basically disproved alot of the **** we learned. All our bearhug, choke releases were proved ineffective. Do these attacks with conviction, bearhugs resulted you on the floor, RNC then have your legs kicked out (standing) and you'll straight away. Gun disarms didnt work he showed this cos he simulated an attack on a chick and warned her first and she was ok with it.

    Grabbed her by the hair, shoved her, slapped her across the face the gun was moving whilst he was doing all this and was screaming at her. She went to grab it, he flinched and pulled the gun back. If it were real she would have died. He had alot to say about criminal behaviour and such as he studies it for his profession. Throughout my km experience i had doubts or adjustments which i made to techs myself which made them better, i even suggested we spar (or me at least) with no gear apart from mouth piece so i could deal with actual trauma and condition the body, my instructor understood but didnt allow it. Although itay's 16 hour (over 3 days) seminar was hard and intense after he left **** got even softer than previously and i left.

    Following week was at an mma gym that had no mma classes or wrestling classes anymore. So i did the single boxing class per week they offered and bjj 3 days a week. Boxing was great due to the instructor (guy in his early 60s with a fight record, had been a trainer for years), the bjj was awesome but i had some issues which can be found in the 'money and grading' thread in YMAS. That coupled with grubby mats (looks like it was never cleaned, found a broken toe nail while stretching) and i left that place.

    Now at a new bjj place where i do 8-9 hours a week of bjj (2 of those hours no gi). Got a fantastic brazilian instructor who has travelled out of country to compete (and win), his classes are structered well and the place is super clean. Its also alot cheaper then the other places i went.

    I hope you enjoyed the read, i left out alot of stuff in the km section due to there being alot to cover if theres a demand for it ill make a thread.

  7. #157

    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    Ohio, USA
    Posts
    37
    Style
    GJJ, Wrestling, Kyokushin
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I joined a dojo for the Japanese MMA class. That program only lasted 4 classes before being cancelled and then I was left with the Kyokushin class. At first I hated this because I had seen countless karate guys get tossed around by grapplers in MMA, no leg shoots etc, it was really hard for me. Eventually I was able to embrace Kyokushin though.

    During my first belt promotion I was tested on material that had never been covered in class, including a kata that was way advanced for a white belt that I had never even seen performed. I watched the guy before me do it and learned the kata by watching it performed one time during the test. I was promoted an extra step and told that I was not allowed to take the next test because of the early promotion. A week before the next test I was informed that I would be taking the test and kind of injured myself preparing.

    Every time he said he was doing something specific at the next class, it never happened. It always changed.

    As soon as I finally accepted knockdown karate Shihan broke away from the organization to form his own style. At this point I started to get mad. Around this time I had also started working with him at his regular day job. I would never recommend working with your instructor outside of martial arts, not a healthy balance etc. I felt like that made it really hard to quit.

    At this point I don't know why I stayed. It's almost like I really was a part of a cult and was brainwashed.

    Shihan started making his own katas for his new style. I would learn a new kata, spend an hour at home working on it and go back to class only to find out that the kata was changed. I brought this to the attention of Shihan and the green belt that helped him with his curriculum and they were really confused. I showed them the video that they posted on the website of the kata to prove that we had been taught a different way but it was too late because writing it in their files made the new way "official" etc.

    I was also told that we were suppose to be going 30% during sparring. Some of his students were going like 90-100% which pretty much guarantees that the guy going 30% was going to get injured each time his attack at 30% was countered.

    I was at a friend of my girlfriend's house who knew nothing about martial arts at all. She could see how depressed I was and asked me what was wrong. At that point I realized that there was a problem If someone who knows nothing about me or martial arts could see that I was not happy.

    I waited for Shihan to come back into town, called him and informed him that I was not coming back.

    Damn I miss grappling and leg shoots.

  8. #158

    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Honduras
    Posts
    356
    Style
    KARATE-BJJ-MMA
    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Raycetpfl View Post
    cool story bro. Krav is generally bullshido as well. ending fights quickly in "3-5 seconds" takes years of training,luck and the other combatant being completely out classed, not 5 classes. Krav pretends nut shots are kill shots. they are not. Krav pretends all their students have knockout power. Most don't and never will due to being small,slow,weak and they have poor training and technical ability.
    Laaaaate comment on this, but I think it is worthwhile to emphasize this. Even if you are a long-trained practitioner, there is no warranty at all that you can deliver that kind of knockdown power in live combat or even live sparring.

    Back in the mid80s I was cross-training with some local kung fu people who were a lot into hard sparring, semi-Kyokushin style, that is, full-power fists and kicks to the body, but no fists to the head, only kicks (full-power, too). One day a hotshot of their style dropped by my place to spar. He was beating me up thoroughly when needlessly, he grabbed me and kneed me hard to the body and barely missed my face. Now, knees and elbows were not an agreed upon, so that was p*ssed me off and meant to me that rules were off. So I punched the hell out of his face.
    I ended up with a three-shot combo ending in a right cross that actually spun him around 360 degrees like in a cheesy movie. Yet he would not go down. He took my best punches and I could not knock him down. Thankfully it did not escalate further as we both backed off. He would have likely beaten me to a pulp.

    I had been training for five years or so already at that point, but if I could not knock down somehow with multiple punches to the face, who came from a style where they were not used to covering up their face, what hope did I have against a boxer or plain bruiser who could keep his chin down and hands up?

  9. #159

    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Honduras
    Posts
    356
    Style
    KARATE-BJJ-MMA
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by boldeagle67 View Post
    I joined a dojo for the Japanese MMA class. That program only lasted 4 classes before being cancelled and then I was left with the Kyokushin class. At first I hated this because I had seen countless karate guys get tossed around by grapplers in MMA, no leg shoots etc, it was really hard for me. Eventually I was able to embrace Kyokushin though.

    During my first belt promotion I was tested on material that had never been covered in class, including a kata that was way advanced for a white belt that I had never even seen performed. I watched the guy before me do it and learned the kata by watching it performed one time during the test. I was promoted an extra step and told that I was not allowed to take the next test because of the early promotion. A week before the next test I was informed that I would be taking the test and kind of injured myself preparing.

    Every time he said he was doing something specific at the next class, it never happened. It always changed.

    As soon as I finally accepted knockdown karate Shihan broke away from the organization to form his own style. At this point I started to get mad. Around this time I had also started working with him at his regular day job. I would never recommend working with your instructor outside of martial arts, not a healthy balance etc. I felt like that made it really hard to quit.

    At this point I don't know why I stayed. It's almost like I really was a part of a cult and was brainwashed.

    Shihan started making his own katas for his new style. I would learn a new kata, spend an hour at home working on it and go back to class only to find out that the kata was changed. I brought this to the attention of Shihan and the green belt that helped him with his curriculum and they were really confused. I showed them the video that they posted on the website of the kata to prove that we had been taught a different way but it was too late because writing it in their files made the new way "official" etc.

    I was also told that we were suppose to be going 30% during sparring. Some of his students were going like 90-100% which pretty much guarantees that the guy going 30% was going to get injured each time his attack at 30% was countered.

    I was at a friend of my girlfriend's house who knew nothing about martial arts at all. She could see how depressed I was and asked me what was wrong. At that point I realized that there was a problem If someone who knows nothing about me or martial arts could see that I was not happy.

    I waited for Shihan to come back into town, called him and informed him that I was not coming back.

    Damn I miss grappling and leg shoots.
    Dude, just the fact that you keep referring to your teacher as Shihan in such absolute without even articles in front means that you were indeed in cult-like indoctrination.

  10. #160

    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Honduras
    Posts
    356
    Style
    KARATE-BJJ-MMA
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kravbizarre View Post
    I hope you enjoyed the read, i left out alot of stuff in the km section due to there being alot to cover if theres a demand for it ill make a thread.
    Ah, all that takes me back... It's funny how much one samples here and there just looking for decent instruction. I think very few manage to land at the right spot from the beginning.

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