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  1. #31
    Vargas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Northwest Florida
    submission wrestling
    "Good grapplers are often incredibly relaxed"

    Yeah, when they're drunk after the tournament :)
    "I had once talked to Billy Conn, the boxer, about professionals versus amateurs - specifically street fighters. One had always heard rumors of champions being taken out by back-alley fighters. Conn was scornful. "Aw, it's like hitting a girl," he said. "They're nothing."

    - George Plimpton
    "Shadow Box"

  2. #32

    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    My dream finally came true and I found a steady training partner. That's the good news. He said he'd be willing to spar with me during [s]Christmas[/s] the winter holidays break. That's really good news, since I've been going crazy from my desire to spar with someone lately. He's a wrestler who's in fantastic shape, so I've got the benefit of a competent partner, too. Now here's the bad news: I don't know any grappling.

    Now no one start yelling at me here for my fighting ignorance. I really really really wanted to join my school's wrestling team like him, but there's just no way I'd be able to get the time off work. He's only been in wrestling a couple months, but he's still damn good. I spent a few days trying it out, though, so all I know is the double-leg takedown, the cradle (which I forgot immediately after practice), and the sprawl. Needless to say, I'm pretty ill-equipped. What do you reccomend to a karate man like myself who uses extremely close-ranged technique and might be able to beat him in a standup fight? Anyone have any general-principle advice on what to do once he gets me down?

    Learn it

    And don't be intimidated. Just don't let him grapple you. Easier said then done, but it can be done with footwork. Usually, when they shoot in without setting it up, you can just kick them or knee them in the face.

    If you're a very quick and excellent stand-up fighter, you really wouldn't need to grapple in self-defense situations, but for training, chances are you will be taken down so learn some grappling. It's best you not learn anything other than the basics from a person who just started out wrestling, because they forget to point out the very small mechanical things that make the technique work. One move in wrestling, you need precise footwork and no sloppy movements that you might be able to get away in beginner sport boxing.

  3. #33

    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Once again, if you want to be a 'complete' fighter (ie not getting whipped because you have an Achilles heel), then take a sabbatical from the karate and go to that BJJ place down the road. If you still want to practice your takedowns and sprawls with your wrestler buddy, great. However, BJJ is almost all about submissions and that's what most of ground-fighting consists of. If, like you say, you're 100% confident in your art, then don't go to the BJJ place, don't learn submissions and don't be surprised at what happens if you ever roll with a 'real deal' ground fighter.

    It sounds like you think you have a pretty good stand-up game, so what's keeping you from cross-training? I've sparred with a lot of different guys with an assortment of backgrounds. I've fought BJJ guys, wrestlers, Olympic-level TKD guys, pro kickboxers, NHB fighters, you name it. Believe me, all styles (Eastern and Western) have flaws. I don't give a **** if the teacher is 70 years old with an 8th degree black belt or is the head wrestling coach at Iowa State, he will not make you a complete fighter all on his own. It's all up to you, though, so trust your instincts and do what you think is right.

    I disagree with that statement

    The head wrestling coach teaches freestyle, collegiate, and greco-roman but mostly collegiate.

    However, the guy also knows catch-as-can.

    You need to look at the combat versions of the style, the sport and combat styles are totally different

    Combat TKD has grappling on its own but it emphasizes striking first and grappling when it happens to be open.

    BJJ has striking

    Most Olympic-level TKD people have never trained for real combat in their life. They can't afford to. It takes time away from their sport training so they CAN BECOME OLYMPIC athletes. You can't score points with combat TKD, but you can defend yourself.

    Now, most instructors cannot make you complete. But most good instructors can make you know yourself so you can make yourself complete. And "complete" for some fighters is different for others. Complete for me might consist of less grappling and more striking while it may be visa versa for you. A guy with tentacles's "completeness" will have a lot more grappling than striking. He will know both aspects, but his overall knowledge and skill is unbalanced, because humans are unbalanced

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