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  1. #11
    hungryjoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    Why do you feel the need to flock to acronyms and initialisms?

    To me, Dana is Donald Trump.
    Weak troll attempt. Millions of us think you're playing to emotion. What about that .50 cal you stand to inherit but can't bring across your NJ state lines? Kindly **** off. You can find better areas of the site to troll. Weak, really.
    Last edited by hungryjoe; 9/28/2019 11:28pm at .

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    As I tell you guys, I search all sides of any issue I choose to debate. I like to be informed before I state or argue my position. Recently I have actually been getting donate to Trump and anti-gun ads and stories.

    This one popped up today.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/sergeik...2016-election/

    Yes, the senate has published a 77 page report about the NRA being a Rusian asset. No. I am not joking, this is not a parody or comedic article from the Onion. I am truly fascinated at this turn.

    I haven't completely delved in, but it reminds me of another investigation.
    The NPR highlight blurb I read that concerns me states that Pete Brownell appears to have taken a trip to Russia when promised business opportunities. If so, and if NRA defrayed the costs of said trip, that is bad for Pete, bad for Brownells, and bad for the NRA. Most of the rest seems like noise.

    I intend to read the document fully when I have time, but if this report is anything like a certain Congressman's parody of Donald Trump's summary of his Ukraine Conversation (or the Russia investigation, or . . .), we are going to see a bunch of nasty accusations surrounded by information that looks bad but doesn't really tell us much. Did the NRA actually get caught doing anything they shouldn't have been, or did they get taken advantage of by Russian information operations? Bottom line is that the NRA's influence in Washington has waned to the point that Democrats feel confident that they can destroy it for acting like any other partisan non-profit lobbying firm. I'm sure that has nothing to do with competing Bloomberg money/lobbying and everything to do with sea change in American politics.

    There's some irony in that, somewhere. An actual grassroots funded organization getting destroyed by a centrally funded fake grassroots organization. I think where all this goes off the rails is that NRA was full of members who were not 2A absolutists and thought GOA type organizations were too extreme. What are they going to think if NRA gets destroyed by Bloomberg and the DNC members of Capitol Hill.
    Last edited by Cassius; 9/29/2019 3:32am at .
    "No. Listen to me because I know what I'm talking about here." -- Hannibal

  3. #13
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    Exactly how I feel. It reminds me of the Clinton foundation investigation. i still ned to read both reports. The Dems have a 77 page report and the Repubs have a 19 page rebuttal.

  4. #14

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    Any issue and/or any group, individual, etc that adds momentum to divisive issues in other players is an asset to Putin.

    Whether the NRA, or Ms. Greta, the Current President, Pelosi, all the circus **** shows undermining confidence in the integrity of the government or Democratic process.

    It makes other players weaker, distracted with infighting, and allows Putin to say “see, the ones who accuse of us of being fucked up are themselves fucked up / corrupt / rigged Democracies,” etc.

  5. #15
    W. Rabbit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hungryjoe View Post
    Weak troll attempt. Millions of us think you're playing to emotion. What about that .50 cal you stand to inherit but can't bring across your NJ state lines? Kindly **** off. You can find better areas of the site to troll. Weak, really.
    Yes your attempt to troll is weak.

    The .50 is totally legal here in NJ. This is part of the issue, somebody (NRA?) has convinced you I live in some sort of gunless communist state. Sorry to disappoint!

    And if you want to see some real appeal to emotion, watch Dana's NRA fear mongering video again count and how many times she says to fear "they", "them", and "their".

    I find it ironic her Parkland survivor debate opponent showed more emotional restraint that she did, and kept to the question about bump stocks while Dana went fully auto emote.
    Last edited by W. Rabbit; 9/29/2019 11:18am at .
    '“I am no advocate of passivity,” Coffin Mott said in an 1860 speech. “Quakerism, as I understand it, does not mean quietism. The early Friends were agitators; disturbers of the peace; and were more obnoxious in their day to charges, which are now so freely made, than we are.”'

  6. #16
    W. Rabbit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cassius View Post
    a centrally funded fake grassroots organization.
    The term for this is "astroturfing" and I think you could argue the NRA does plenty of it too.
    '“I am no advocate of passivity,” Coffin Mott said in an 1860 speech. “Quakerism, as I understand it, does not mean quietism. The early Friends were agitators; disturbers of the peace; and were more obnoxious in their day to charges, which are now so freely made, than we are.”'

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    The term for this is "astroturfing" and I think you could argue the NRA does plenty of it too.
    The NRA makes a good amount of money off of the gun industry, but when you look into it, a significant portion of that appears to be from NRA "round up" purchases or similar programs, which tend to be voluntary opt in things for purchasers. The best information I can find is that membership dues are about 45%+ of its income, with individual donations making up another 24% or so of its income. Due to the way they are structured it is a little hard to tell, but from what I can tell it still seems as though the NRA is much more of a grassroots organization than Everytown/Moms/Other Random Orgs that make it appear as though there are lots and lots of little groups popping up all over the place. When HUFFPO criticizes your organization for lacking transparency, being centrally funded by billionaires, and doing business with the nonprofit version of shell corporations, that is telling. The coverage everytown/Moms get for their bloody flag waving reeks of insider media access, too.

    And this is anecdotal so take it for what its worth, but at the protest events I have observed in the DC metro area, I think most telling is how gun control people seem to always be bussed in from somewhere else, given materials to use, clothing, food, etc . . . whereas the pro2A people always seem to carpool in from wherever on their own some and usually pay their own way. Again that is anecdotal to my experience.

    Just to be clear: I do not support the NRA in its current state or much of its messaging, but they have some amazing programs that I would hate to see go away. And no other organization is ready to step up and fill the void when DNC/rich people finally fracture or outright destroy it. I donate to causes I best identify with, only two of which are gun related at the moment (American Suppressor Association and Second Amendment Foundation).
    "No. Listen to me because I know what I'm talking about here." -- Hannibal

  8. #18
    W. Rabbit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cassius View Post
    The NRA makes a good amount of money off of the gun industry, but when you look into it, a significant portion of that appears to be from NRA "round up" purchases or similar programs, which tend to be voluntary opt in things for purchasers. The best information I can find is that membership dues are about 45%+ of its income, with individual donations making up another 24% or so of its income. Due to the way they are structured it is a little hard to tell, but from what I can tell it still seems as though the NRA is much more of a grassroots organization than Everytown/Moms/Other Random Orgs that make it appear as though there are lots and lots of little groups popping up all over the place. When HUFFPO criticizes your organization for lacking transparency, being centrally funded by billionaires, and doing business with the nonprofit version of shell corporations, that is telling. The coverage everytown/Moms get for their bloody flag waving reeks of insider media access, too.

    And this is anecdotal so take it for what its worth, but at the protest events I have observed in the DC metro area, I think most telling is how gun control people seem to always be bussed in from somewhere else, given materials to use, clothing, food, etc . . . whereas the pro2A people always seem to carpool in from wherever on their own some and usually pay their own way. Again that is anecdotal to my experience.

    Just to be clear: I do not support the NRA in its current state or much of its messaging, but they have some amazing programs that I would hate to see go away. And no other organization is ready to step up and fill the void when DNC/rich people finally fracture or outright destroy it. I donate to causes I best identify with, only two of which are gun related at the moment (American Suppressor Association and Second Amendment Foundation).
    I think what's wrong with the NRA is that they are in bed with some really, really sleazy mass media organizations of, let's just say, questionable integrity. So now they use similar tactics, smears, including smeaing the actual survivors of gun violence. WTF? Charleton Heson, in Flint Michigan, after Columbine???? "From my cold dead hands", he said. But the cold dead hands are the children's in these school shootings, not him. He died peacefully, in Beverly Hills.

    The NRA uses the same tactics as those other unmentionables: fear of government (unless of course it's your candidate). "THE GOVERNMENT IS COMING FOR YOUR GUNS" type fear mongering is worse than anything I've seen elsewhere. At least the Sandy Hook, Colorado, Parkland survivors etc are coming from a place of real victimhood, they were traumatized by gun violence and suffer PTSD until the end of time.

    So when Dana "I used to be an average Youtuber" Loesch tried to scare me with Otherism bullshit so I might clutch my AR-15 tighter at night, kiss my .223 rounds, and donate to the NRA...

    yeah I'm done with the NRA. The idea of it is great, but talk about missing the forest for the trees. They could be championing the debate! They could be educating and enlightening the victims, and helping get common sense gun laws put in place. But they don't, because it's easier to scare everyone that the US is one night away from a Kristallnacht where everyone's guns and bullets are rounded up by commies. That's such a pipe dream, it would take someone like Dana Loesch to try selling it.
    Last edited by W. Rabbit; 9/29/2019 9:03pm at .
    '“I am no advocate of passivity,” Coffin Mott said in an 1860 speech. “Quakerism, as I understand it, does not mean quietism. The early Friends were agitators; disturbers of the peace; and were more obnoxious in their day to charges, which are now so freely made, than we are.”'

  9. #19
    W. Rabbit's Avatar
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    When Jon Favreau, of all people, calls your videos "revolting and frightening", yeah you might want to consider a change in tone.
    '“I am no advocate of passivity,” Coffin Mott said in an 1860 speech. “Quakerism, as I understand it, does not mean quietism. The early Friends were agitators; disturbers of the peace; and were more obnoxious in their day to charges, which are now so freely made, than we are.”'

  10. #20
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    Yeah I've got a real problem with NRA fearmongering too. That specifically is why I do not support them. Well and the bumpstock thing and how they never got held accountable for getting them banned. And the Hughes Amendment. And, to keep bringing up old ****, their support of open carry bans when "undesirables" started doing it.

    What I do find amusing: when you declare NRA Terrorists but still require you police force to be affiliated with them.
    "No. Listen to me because I know what I'm talking about here." -- Hannibal

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