Page 6 of 6 First ... 23456
  1. #51
    BKR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Bonners Ferry, Idaho
    Posts
    26,729
    Style
    Kodokan Judo/BJJ
    2
    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    If I had to guess on hours put in, just to be transparent, probably about 500 hours spent in Judo and BJJ with about 65% in the latter. Hence yellow testing for green, and forever almost blue.

    But Chinese standup grappling, San shou ruleset? Easily 5,000 hours, with about 2k spent on grappling fundamentals, especially grips, and when I took BJJ, it was practically identical. Sanshou takedowns are very similar to other to grappling arts that "work".

    White belt for life. Black belt only means you've mastered the basics.

    And in Glima, the belt is literally just a harness. I posted a picture earlier, the oldest ones look like horse harness, made for a man.
    In Judo, that is what shodan is supposed to mean, but, it's not really mastered. And by basics, it means pretty much basic basics have been learned to a degree that not having them is not an impediment to further learning.

    It's an old standard from Japan, and in modern times, I'm afraid, IMO and IME, it's rarely met, fully at least.

    Particularly given the emphasis on competition. And the lack of agreement on what "basics" mean. Or lack of knowledge, in many cases.

    It's a journey, for sure, and people are individuals. Shodan literally means something like "pattern" or "fits pattern". A very...Japan-esy way of looking at learning, eh ?

    In Japan, anything up to and often including sandan is not considered to be expert level, in Judo (in Japan) at least. It's like, get your yondan and then we can talk...

    Because you have jr. high kids getting shodan after a year or two of Judo.
    Falling for Judo since 1980

    "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

    "The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

    "Banning BKR is like kicking a Quokka. It's foolishness of the first order." - Raycetpfl

  2. #52
    BKR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Bonners Ferry, Idaho
    Posts
    26,729
    Style
    Kodokan Judo/BJJ
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by cualltaigh View Post
    I'm somewhat unique in that I prefer Hon Kesa over Kuzure. There are two specific subs I do to counter the escape you refer to above, and at least four others just from the position not including a tap from pressure.
    I think that if a person has the skill to use Hon Kesa, and force the guy on bottom to really have to exert themselves to escape, it's good.

    I can hold most guys I ever rolled with in Kesa for quite some time. If I transition, then even longer.

    The bigger they are, the harder it gets, especially if they know what they are doing, and the smaller the margin of error in trying to transition to another position or a submission.

    Catching a black belt of any size with a sub from there was something I never even got close to doing in BJJ.

    I used to just see how long I could hold my coach, which we both found to be very amusing and fun.

    Most people hold in Hon Kesa with their knuckles down, which facilitates the bridging/arm trap types of escapes.

    I know two subs for that variety of escape, maybe three. Of course at this point, I can't train anymore so it's moot.
    Falling for Judo since 1980

    "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

    "The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

    "Banning BKR is like kicking a Quokka. It's foolishness of the first order." - Raycetpfl

  3. #53
    Joe "I should not comment on Anthony Weiner" Biden staff
    submessenger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    KAUS
    Posts
    11,107
    Style
    BJJ/Judo/MT
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    Hon Kesa Gatame works. I learned in BJJ that the Kuzure Kesa Gatame is preferred, due to the underhook limiting uke ability to take your back. I knew from Judo that you have to carefully place your arm around uke head/neck in Hon Kesa Gatame in order to avoid getting it trapped, and easily bridged over.

    Despite my (probably expected) experience skill at holding (and submitting) judoka from Hon Kesa Gatame, I found that, as I learned in BJJ, holding with Kuzure Kesa Gatame (far under-hook version) is a safer bet in BJJ, where, you are working for a submission or further positional dominance (in competition), rather than winning a match, as in Judo.

    I knew some subs from Hon Kesa, but I learned things I had never seen before from a one-legged BJJ black belt from Montana regarding that.
    Words words Japanese cultural appropriation blah blah. Holy ****, these things have names!

    Kuzure is my preferred, I find that (my) Hon is easy to roll out/shrimp out of; small arms and small torso. It can be a good starting point, though, with less experienced players.

  4. #54
    W. Rabbit's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Wa Chung Mountain, NJ
    Posts
    17,763
    Style
    Mixed
    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    I think I gave some opinion on the Glima video(s).
    This one ?

    '“I am no advocate of passivity,” Coffin Mott said in an 1860 speech. “Quakerism, as I understand it, does not mean quietism. The early Friends were agitators; disturbers of the peace; and were more obnoxious in their day to charges, which are now so freely made, than we are.”'

  5. #55
    W. Rabbit's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Wa Chung Mountain, NJ
    Posts
    17,763
    Style
    Mixed
    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    It's a journey, for sure, and people are individuals. Shodan literally means something like "pattern" or "fits pattern". A very...Japan-esy way of looking at learning, eh .
    You know I'm pretty good with the hanzi/kanji.

    初段 means first steps, like a baby's or the bottom of a stairwell.

    Totally Japanese.
    '“I am no advocate of passivity,” Coffin Mott said in an 1860 speech. “Quakerism, as I understand it, does not mean quietism. The early Friends were agitators; disturbers of the peace; and were more obnoxious in their day to charges, which are now so freely made, than we are.”'

  6. #56
    jnp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    8,586
    Style
    BJJ, wrestling
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by Raycetpfl View Post
    I consider myself an expert in Gracie Jiu Jitsu.

    I have world class instructors,I study film, I buy privates with world champs, I study instructionals and train 6 days a week.
    Years are not a good way to gauge time training. I have around 12,000 hours training. If I am not an expert than no one is.
    You are a professional. I am an amateur. So yes, I would defer to you because of more experience.

    Years are an accepted and easily understood term of measurement for the laymen. A different metric applies to professionals. You’re right though. Hours on the mat under qualified instruction are the most accurate measurement of proficiency.
    Shut the hell up and train.

  7. #57
    BKR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Bonners Ferry, Idaho
    Posts
    26,729
    Style
    Kodokan Judo/BJJ
    2
    Quote Originally Posted by submessenger View Post
    Words words Japanese cultural appropriation blah blah. Holy ****, these things have names!

    Kuzure is my preferred, I find that (my) Hon is easy to roll out/shrimp out of; small arms and small torso. It can be a good starting point, though, with less experienced players.
    No, you suck at Hon Kesa, that is the problem. It is harder to do.

    Short torso...lol
    Falling for Judo since 1980

    "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

    "The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

    "Banning BKR is like kicking a Quokka. It's foolishness of the first order." - Raycetpfl

  8. #58
    BKR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Bonners Ferry, Idaho
    Posts
    26,729
    Style
    Kodokan Judo/BJJ
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    This one ?

    Yes...I believe so...

    Standard wrestling
    Falling for Judo since 1980

    "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

    "The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

    "Banning BKR is like kicking a Quokka. It's foolishness of the first order." - Raycetpfl

  9. #59
    Joe "I should not comment on Anthony Weiner" Biden staff
    submessenger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    KAUS
    Posts
    11,107
    Style
    BJJ/Judo/MT
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    No, you suck at Hon Kesa, that is the problem. It is harder to do.

    Short torso...lol
    I said small torso. I can't keep muscle or volume without constant attention. My arms are twigs, my neck is 14 inches, my chest is in the 33" range. Legs are what makes my kesa work, when it works.

Page 6 of 6 First ... 23456

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Log in