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  1. #1
    Drunken Soim's Avatar
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    Massacre at a Brazilian school leaves at least 8 dead

    I feel like I'm starting a trend here. Delivering bad news from my country again.

    It was a school shooting this time. Two armed men (aged 25 and 17) invaded a State school in a town called Suzano, near Sao Paulo. They opened fire on teachers (one of them a Philosophy teacher, like myself), students and anybody else in the way, then committed suicide. 8 people died on the scene. More were left wounded, but I've heard news that two more died while receiving treatment. It all happened just a couple of hours ago. Reasons are still being investigated, but the internet history of the attackers has revealed tendencies toward political extremism.

    Damn, I was supposed to be in that very same town a couple of days ago, but couldn't make the trip.

    The country is in the middle of a heated debate about firearms commerce and ownership. Guns are expensive and you need special permission to own one if you're not police, army etc. Facilitating that process was one of the electoral promises of our new president, Mr. Bolsonaro, and people who defend disarmament are raging all over the country and the internet right now.

    I'll post more details when I get the chance.

  2. #2
    Bneterasedmynam's Avatar
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    In b4 gun control, armed teachers, and safe spaces.

  3. #3
    ghost55's Avatar
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    How could this happen I thought guns were ILLEGAL?!

  4. #4
    BackFistMonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghost55 View Post
    How could this happen I thought guns were ILLEGAL?!
    Probly the abundance of Brazilian made firearms.
    I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.
    BILL HICKS,
    1961-1994

    "Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past."
    ---Jean-Paul Sartre

  5. #5
    ghost55's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BackFistMonkey View Post
    Probly the abundance of Brazilian made firearms.
    Yes but those are for the Police.

  6. #6
    BackFistMonkey's Avatar
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    ISIS in 5, 4, 3, ...
    I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.
    BILL HICKS,
    1961-1994

    "Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past."
    ---Jean-Paul Sartre

  7. #7
    battlefields's Avatar
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    Australian gun laws = proof of efficacy is up next.
    GET A RED BELT OR DIE TRYIN'.
    Quote Originally Posted by Devil View Post
    I think Battlefields and I had a spirited discussion once about who was the biggest narcissist. We both wanted the title but at the end of the day I had to concede defeat. Can't win 'em all.
    Quote Originally Posted by BackFistMonkey View Post
    I <3 Battlefields...

  8. #8
    Bneterasedmynam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by battlefields View Post
    Australian gun laws = proof of efficacy is up next.
    Yeah, that's only because the UK ended up falling off their soapbox on that issue when the Muslims conquered their island.

  9. #9
    Drunken Soim's Avatar
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    I heard a bit more about the case today. People are saying Suzano is one the of safest towns in its region. This massacre was completely unexpected for most. People there didn't feel the need to have armed security around or even to lock the school doors. It appears this level of violence was completely unprecedented for them.

    Since most people I talk to in the forums are from the US, I believe it's important to note that Brazil and the US have a very different culture and different rules regarding firearms. Around here, the average person often associates weapons with public and private security professionals, VIP or criminals. I think it's safe to say that the vast majority of the population doesn't have a gun at home and doesn't want one. This is changing now. Strong politicians - the very same politicians that say this massacre was caused by exposure to violent videogames - are making a huge effort to arm the population. They say they're giving means for the good citizens to protect themselves and their families. This could work, but, as I said before, we have a different culture here. I don't think many people in my country have enough psychological (or moral) capacity to use guns safely.

    Just yesterday as I was coming back from my girlfriend's house around 10:30 p.m. I witnessed a situation that could get very messy - some dude in a luxury sedan rushed and blocked a small car in front of him. Dude comes out of the car, shouts, points his finger to the other driver. Judging by how slow the other driver managed to get away, he/she should have been terrified. Then the rich guy in the sedan gets back on his car, turns around and sprints on the other direction. I assume the driver on the little car must have made a mistake on traffic and the rich guy caused a scene in retaliation. Anyway, I know this kind of stuff happens everywhere, but it's really common place in my town.

    We take psychological tests to drive (and carry guns too) here, but our culture is way too lax about formalities (it's the "Brazilian way", as we call it). I often say to my students that being flexible about some rules can be a good thing, but many times people around here want to be flexible about really dangerous stuff (driving, dangerous work, health, you name it). The "true" Brazilian way should be about empathy and helping others. Many times it's flat out corruption and crime.

    So, yeah, I believe people should be able to have guns if they wanted. I just don't think my country is ready to make them available for everyone who has enough money to buy one and bribe the officials who regulate firearm commerce and carrying. I'm also specially talking about my town and region, which holds one of the highest suicides rates of the country, statistically. I'm not sure how it really works, but I fear that with more guns around, more people will blow their heads off with them more often. They would probably kill themselves anyway, but I know people who tried suicide and might not be around now if they had guns. I even know one who tried suicide with a gun and survived.

    Anyways, I'm not trying to convince anyone about disarmament. I'm just worried. This massacre gave me a lot to think about.

  10. #10
    BKR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drunken Soim View Post
    I heard a bit more about the case today. People are saying Suzano is one the of safest towns in its region. This massacre was completely unexpected for most. People there didn't feel the need to have armed security around or even to lock the school doors. It appears this level of violence was completely unprecedented for them.

    Since most people I talk to in the forums are from the US, I believe it's important to note that Brazil and the US have a very different culture and different rules regarding firearms. Around here, the average person often associates weapons with public and private security professionals, VIP or criminals. I think it's safe to say that the vast majority of the population doesn't have a gun at home and doesn't want one. This is changing now. Strong politicians - the very same politicians that say this massacre was caused by exposure to violent videogames - are making a huge effort to arm the population. They say they're giving means for the good citizens to protect themselves and their families. This could work, but, as I said before, we have a different culture here. I don't think many people in my country have enough psychological (or moral) capacity to use guns safely.

    Just yesterday as I was coming back from my girlfriend's house around 10:30 p.m. I witnessed a situation that could get very messy - some dude in a luxury sedan rushed and blocked a small car in front of him. Dude comes out of the car, shouts, points his finger to the other driver. Judging by how slow the other driver managed to get away, he/she should have been terrified. Then the rich guy in the sedan gets back on his car, turns around and sprints on the other direction. I assume the driver on the little car must have made a mistake on traffic and the rich guy caused a scene in retaliation. Anyway, I know this kind of stuff happens everywhere, but it's really common place in my town.

    We take psychological tests to drive (and carry guns too) here, but our culture is way too lax about formalities (it's the "Brazilian way", as we call it). I often say to my students that being flexible about some rules can be a good thing, but many times people around here want to be flexible about really dangerous stuff (driving, dangerous work, health, you name it). The "true" Brazilian way should be about empathy and helping others. Many times it's flat out corruption and crime.

    So, yeah, I believe people should be able to have guns if they wanted. I just don't think my country is ready to make them available for everyone who has enough money to buy one and bribe the officials who regulate firearm commerce and carrying. I'm also specially talking about my town and region, which holds one of the highest suicides rates of the country, statistically. I'm not sure how it really works, but I fear that with more guns around, more people will blow their heads off with them more often. They would probably kill themselves anyway, but I know people who tried suicide and might not be around now if they had guns. I even know one who tried suicide with a gun and survived.

    Anyways, I'm not trying to convince anyone about disarmament. I'm just worried. This massacre gave me a lot to think about.
    Has anyone come up with a viable motive(s) for the shooters yet ?
    Falling for Judo since 1980

    "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

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