Page 3 of 3 First 123
  1. #21
    submessenger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    KAUS
    Posts
    8,961
    Style
    BJJ/Judo/MT
    4
    Quote Originally Posted by ghost55 View Post
    Well I got around to reading the whole article. Just reading it was stressful. I feel for some of the people that are facing serious charges. They were set up to fail.
    Yes, indeedy. My last base tour was in 2015, and I was utterly shocked at the state of my Navy. Rust fucking everywhere. I did get to see one of the brand-new LCS's up at BIW, that was cool as ****, but the general state of the Navy is just piss poor, right now. Towards the end of my career, I was a Quartermaster - chiefly responsible for navigation, weather prediction, and port logistics. I found out recently that they are *going to start teaching celestial and terrestrial navigation again*. What a punch in the face. GPS was in beta testing when I was driving ships, we weren't even allowed to use it, and CAPN was a thing, but we weren't allowed to use it, either. This is a great example of how technology doesn't solve all problems. You need smart, capable people on the wheel.

  2. #22
    ghost55's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Posts
    6,168
    Style
    CQC
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by submessenger View Post
    Yes, indeedy. My last base tour was in 2015, and I was utterly shocked at the state of my Navy. Rust fucking everywhere. I did get to see one of the brand-new LCS's up at BIW, that was cool as ****, but the general state of the Navy is just piss poor, right now. Towards the end of my career, I was a Quartermaster - chiefly responsible for navigation, weather prediction, and port logistics. I found out recently that they are *going to start teaching celestial and terrestrial navigation again*. What a punch in the face. GPS was in beta testing when I was driving ships, we weren't even allowed to use it, and CAPN was a thing, but we weren't allowed to use it, either. This is a great example of how technology doesn't solve all problems. You need smart, capable people on the wheel.
    The fact that the Captain was charged with negligent manslaughter was insane. What the **** else could he have done? Refused orders to sail?

  3. #23
    Diesel_tke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Pensacola, FL
    Posts
    5,622
    Style
    stick, pistol, rifle
    2
    Quote Originally Posted by ghost55 View Post
    The fact that the Captain was charged with negligent manslaughter was insane. What the **** else could he have done? Refused orders to sail?
    Yeah, I was thinking about that, too. He basically had a choice, refuse and order and end his career or keep the order and try to fix it, but put everyone at risk. That's a sucky place to have to be. And now that it's out, I would hope they would let him off, but the military doesn't always think that way.
    Combatives training log.

    Gezere: paraphrase from Bas Rutten, Never escalate the level of violence in fight you are losing. :D

    Drum thread

    Pavel Tsatsouline: kettlebell workouts give you “cardio without the dishonour of aerobics”.

  4. #24
    submessenger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    KAUS
    Posts
    8,961
    Style
    BJJ/Judo/MT
    3
    The crux is whether or not it was a lawful order, and hindsight is 20/20.
    https://www.thebalancecareers.com/mi...orders-3332819

    It's shitty, but his ship was capable. He was pushing the crew, and trying to get them trained up, but movements (military speak for be at a specific location at a specific time) are pretty straightforward, and probably not eligible to contest.

    Interestingly, there's a command-level award for readiness. It's called Battle Effectiveness (battle-E, in common parlance). This should be a requirement for deployed vessels, not an option. I have two of these.

    Similarly, individual Surface Warfare quals (ESWS/SWO (called cutlasses)). Those are individual qualifications, and they are not strictly required, but effectively required to advance in rank. On the other hand, the submarine version of those same qualifications (called dolphins) is required for continued underwater service.

  5. #25
    ghost55's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Posts
    6,168
    Style
    CQC
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by Diesel_tke View Post
    Yeah, I was thinking about that, too. He basically had a choice, refuse and order and end his career or keep the order and try to fix it, but put everyone at risk. That's a sucky place to have to be. And now that it's out, I would hope they would let him off, but the military doesn't always think that way.
    Everyone loses here. Aside from the people above him that might skate out of this shitshow with their careers somewhat intact because they made **** roll downhill.

  6. #26
    submessenger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    KAUS
    Posts
    8,961
    Style
    BJJ/Judo/MT
    1
    Just for shits and grins, and I had it handy, transparency (sort of):


  7. #27
    ghost55's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Posts
    6,168
    Style
    CQC
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by submessenger View Post
    The crux is whether or not it was a lawful order, and hindsight is 20/20.
    https://www.thebalancecareers.com/mi...orders-3332819

    It's shitty, but his ship was capable. He was pushing the crew, and trying to get them trained up, but movements (military speak for be at a specific location at a specific time) are pretty straightforward, and probably not eligible to contest.

    Interestingly, there's a command-level award for readiness. It's called Battle Effectiveness (battle-E, in common parlance). This should be a requirement for deployed vessels, not an option. I have two of these.

    Similarly, individual Surface Warfare quals (ESWS/SWO (called cutlasses)). Those are individual qualifications, and they are not strictly required, but effectively required to advance in rank. On the other hand, the submarine version of those same qualifications (called dolphins) is required for continued underwater service.
    I think the issue is that the ship was basically fucked up in so many minor ways as to make something like this inevitable. It did not have the crew necessary to fix everything and post appropriate lookouts while also allowing everyone to get enough sleep to not lose their goddamn minds. Combine that with radar that basically didn't fucking work and an extremely inexperienced crew...

Page 3 of 3 First 123

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Log in