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  1. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hannukah Hairy View Post
    Nope. That economic pattern has been tried several times through history. It has always ended in failure. Look at the history of Jamestown in the US. They tried a communist economic system and nearly starved. Then they switched to a privatized system, and they prospered. Thomas More wrote about how it wouldn't work, and hadn't in the past in 1516. So unless you bought into Marx's view of evolution historical precedent for at least 400yrs should have told you it was doomed to failure.
    The economics of it doom it to failure but it weaponizes a nation quite well. Yet another argument for why communism lends itself directly to aggressive militaristic expansionism.

    One of the pieces that you may be leaving out of your model is that the Kremlin rapidly became solely interested in the power that it afforded them over the populace and then spent the next many decades fleecing every country that it managed to exert influence over. There were some hold outs but for the most part it was a massive pyramid scheme with the USSR at the very top. And look, how does Russia act now? They invade their neighbors. Just like the old days. They replaced the red herring of Communism with false promises about fair trade.

    Corrupt leaders create corrupt systems. (Edit: Corrupt systems necessitate corrupt leaders.)

    The USSR also engaged in foreign trade and commercial deals with other nations whenever it suited them to drop the pretense. Look at the Russian Federation economy today. It's still in a shambles because capitalism alone cannot save a country from incompetent leadership. Gasprom is basically a piggy bank for Russian Oligarchs robbing the country at every turn. Capitalism is not necessarily synonymous with a free market and a market that is designed to fleece every small player will never prosper.

    The more power is concentrated at the top, the less prosperous any people will be. It doesn't matter if its military power or economic power. Karl Marx fooled himself with the idea that capitalism was the blame because he saw the abuse of concentrated financial power but failed to accurately identify the true culprit. You cannot eliminate greed, but you can exacerbate it by making it a survival imperative.
    Last edited by Dung Beatles; 12/06/2018 7:09pm at .

  2. #62

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    Judo and HEMA
    Quote Originally Posted by Hannukah Hairy View Post
    Read his Journals there for the spring of 1609 or you can take the Huffington Post's word for it.

    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/mark-...b_6199464.html
    I will review the Journals when I can. I will NOT take the Huffington Post's word for it. For one thing, the only source they actually quote IS the sign itself, which I have already explained I believed to have a different meaning.
    So, let me see if I can find his Journals on google books or something.

  3. #63

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    Ok. Damn you Rabbi for making me read early 17th century archaic writing.

    First of all, Captain Smiths Journals in no way support the idea of a communist style government/economy being tried and failed in the Jamestown colony.

    What they DO support is the idea that a lot of the early leaders of the colony had no fucking clue what they were doing, were convinced that they knew better than everyone, and would badmouth anyone who said otherwise.
    They were not very good at getting food planted, shelters built, or running trading expeditions, all of which were necessary components of making the colony function. What they also did, according to Captain Smith, was to hoard what little supplies they DID have for themselves, while not helping out with the work around the fort or with the planting.
    Eventually the colonists got pissed off and threw them out. And after some discussion, and a lot of people dead, Captain Smith, who was a military man, largely a sailor, was essentially picked out to be in charge.
    Partly, again according to him, because of his good relations with the natives, and partly because he was competent and well organized and people were dying.
    The Natives, who the colonists thought were going to kill them, actually brought them some corn to eat so that they didn't all starve to death.
    Captain Smiths sign comes essentially as a backlash against the lazy leadership that was previously running the colony in to the ground. Smith himself was largely an explorer and trader, and writes of the early days of the colony largely in spits and spurts where he points out things that he noticed going on between his expeditions to trade with the natives or explore the local rivers.

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