1. #1

    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    225
    Style
    Dog Brothers Martial Arts
    2

    Lloyd de Jongh and Crafty Dog founding new knife/anti-knife system

    Woof All:

    Piper is a very interesting system. Born out of predatory street crime and prisons in South Africa it has movement unlike anything I had seen. I first met Lloyd de Jongh of Piper about ten years ago when he was passing through LA and I got to train with him for a few days. Since then we have stayed in touch, increasingly so in the last couple of years. Last year I hosted him for a seminar and introduced him to Guro Inosanto and Jeff Imada. Guro I. had him do an impromptu demo at the Inosanto Academy and took a private lesson with him.

    Also in recent years I have developed my own knife system, which I call "Chupacabra". This is something which I have held close to the vest but for reasons I will discuss on another day my thinking on has has evolved.

    As Lloyd and I have interacted in the last couple of years, it became apparent to each of us that there was tremendous synergy between his "Piper-Tripwire" and my Chupacabra and our interactions evolved into true collaboration.

    We have decided to merge our systems.

    Here is Lloyd's declaration:
    ==========================================

    How times change. Between 10 and 20 years ago, I received criticism from people genuinely ignorant of the Piper System; claims of fake martial arts, dismissals that what I had was watered-down FMA, or just a poorly constructed system.

    There were few supporters in my corner then, and many nay-sayers who may owe me an apology. Nowadays, I get positive reviews :-D

    That aside, there was one man who was willing to listen, to hear me out, to give me an opportunity so he could judge for himself. And when he offered criticism it was fair. Hard to swallow at the time, but in hindsight, accurate. It forced me to reevaluate, to grow up, to overhaul what I had to make it what it could be.

    Furthermore, he gave me the tools I needed to do this. I owe Guro Marc Denny a huge debt for opening the door to me in 2010, for giving me the tools to improve and enhance the Piper/Tripwire Systems (knife/counter-ambush), for taking a leap of faith again 8 years later. His mentorship and guidance has been a blessing.

    Fire is the test of gold, it melts away slag. Criticism is like fire if taken constructively. It made a raw street methodology better, much better. It made me better.

    Two critical keys Marc Denny gave me were his innovative use of the false lead and multi-faceted deployment of the forearm, it is incredible what these fundamental components have led to. When I finally understood them and incorprated them into my combative framework everything became connected, I understood structure and deception in a way that led to more insights - and what I teach today is a result of this subtle, yet powerful nudge in the right direction.

    I am excited by what Marc is doing with what I have shared with him, knowledge which is partly a result of his investment in me all those years ago. We are collaborating closely and want to announce that together we are founding a new system, which to me is a set of tools to solve a given series of problems. Marc and I will expand upon this in follow up articles. Suffice it to say that the Chupacabra principle of "live hand behind" is combined with movement ideas from Piper.

    These are due to 1) the weapon design and 2) the specific role of slashing in our system - unlike Piper's traditional Okapi knife which is heavily point driven and makes little use of the edge. Those who have trained with me know the way I use both hands alternately and simultaneously while wielding the blade - but this is only valid given the weapon I am working with. Add the edge on the types of blades deployed in this new role and this modification is necessary, and new innovations take its place.

    Integrating the Chupacabra's design intent and structure into the "open-close" movement of Piper without losing the special quality of Piper's movement is something we will be bringing to our new system...

    In our blend of Piper/Tripwire and Chupacabra the primary focus is knife/anti-knife. The workshop seminars in Seattle a week from now will be dress rehearsals for the full premiere three day seminar later this year in Los Angeles. Stay tuned!

  2. #2
    Diesel_tke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Pensacola, FL
    Posts
    5,043
    Style
    stick, pistol, rifle
    Are you going to be making this material available through videos or digital download?
    Combatives training log.

    Gezere: paraphrase from Bas Rutten, Never escalate the level of violence in fight you are losing. :D

    Drum thread

    Pavel Tsatsouline: kettlebell workouts give you “cardio without the dishonour of aerobics”.

  3. #3
    Diesel_tke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Pensacola, FL
    Posts
    5,043
    Style
    stick, pistol, rifle
    Also, when you say you are "merging" your systems, does that include the stick system? So DBMA and Piper will be merged including stick, knife, and empty hand?
    Combatives training log.

    Gezere: paraphrase from Bas Rutten, Never escalate the level of violence in fight you are losing. :D

    Drum thread

    Pavel Tsatsouline: kettlebell workouts give you “cardio without the dishonour of aerobics”.

  4. #4

    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    225
    Style
    Dog Brothers Martial Arts
    2
    Woof Diesel:

    I will continue to have my DBMA, and Lloyd will continue to have his Piper-Tripwire (very much an ice pick knife oriented system) for those still interested in it.

    The merge will consist of the new knife/anti-knife system we have founded. Though drawing upon our respective existing systems (in my case this will be my own knife system "Chupacabra"-- NOT the entirety of DBMA) it is its own unique beast. It is focused on knife and anti-knife.

    I have not spoken much of my Chupacabra system. It is very much a frontal killing system and as such something I am cautious about putting out to the general public. Nonetheless the system has been put to the test in appropriate circumstances.

    I trained King Abdullah of Jordan one-on-one in it for five hours.

    My readings and my Special Forces friends tell me that he, like his father and grandfather, has been a good ally of America.

    For those not familiar with the man, this is what he looks like:
    https://amp.businessinsider.com/imag...5e-750-751.jpg

    He lives in a dangerous world and takes his training seriously. Here he is doing live fire with his son:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WB8NfJKLNKQ

    Religiously tolerant:
    https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...300671672.html. Christianity is openly tolerated (I saw churches with the cross on top with my own eyes, see e.g. this article in the national newspaper alos see http://www.jordantimes.com/news/regi...ristmas-spirit and there are diplomatic relations with Israel-- including embassies.

    Based upon our training together, King Abdullah brought me to Jordan to train his personal bodyguards, his special mission teams, and his special forces (the 71st) for four weeks. For those familiar with these things, this is a fairly long contract. The Jordanian army has bought six hundred 600 of my knife design "the Akita" and the Royal Guard has bought fifty of "the Shiba" https://www.akitatactical.com/

    It is principally an ice pick grip system and unique features of the handles for the Akita/Shiba (patent pending!) make it uniquely suitable for integration with gun: Gun goes click, go to knife to solve immediate problem, and then reload gun without having to holster the knife first. It draws heavily upon the principal of GM Gyi's Bando system that the live hand never goes in front of the blade (contrast many/most FMA systems!)

    Anyway, I hope that gives a bit of the flavor of my Chupacabra system.

    In contrast Piper, which has truly extraordinary, distinctive and unusually deceptive movement, as part of its' "open & close" body mechanics has a lot of live hand in front of the blade.

    In our collaboration, we have developed new chambers for the live hand so as to keep what is special of the Piper movement AND respect the Chupacabra "live hand behind" principal.

    There is much more, but I hope this will begin to give an idea of what is involved.

    In answer to your question regarding Downloads/DVDs, my thinking regarding teaching of knife (I have limited downloads/DVDs to anti-knife) has been challenged by the developments of recent years with a number of knife systems now openly teaching the aggro side to knife openly to one and all.

    The Adventure continues!

  5. #5
    Diesel_tke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Pensacola, FL
    Posts
    5,043
    Style
    stick, pistol, rifle
    OK, thank answers my question. I've seen a few videos of the Piper system. And the various controversies surrounding the origins. Which doesn't really matter to me because use what works and discard what doesn't.

    The things I didn't like about what I saw was that it seemed to be more of an inside fighting system and I didn't see much footwork working from the outside, circling, and movement through ranges. But I admit I can't find any videos of their stick work and the videos of their knife stuff was very limited.

    But since you say this is more to incorporate the ice pick grip system to compliment your system, that makes me feel a lot better about it. Not that I doubted what you are doing because I know you and the rest of the pack will spar everything out and use what works.

    I understand your reluctance to put any of your knife fighting stuff out on the web. I use all of your stick stuff, most of my knife game has come from my instructor's Japanese influence with FMA crossover styles. I've also trained with some AMOK! guys and use some of their stuff.

    All part of the fun. I'll keep following what you are doing. Congrats on getting to train the Jordanian Special Forces guys. I bet that was a cool experience.
    Combatives training log.

    Gezere: paraphrase from Bas Rutten, Never escalate the level of violence in fight you are losing. :D

    Drum thread

    Pavel Tsatsouline: kettlebell workouts give you “cardio without the dishonour of aerobics”.

  6. #6

    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    225
    Style
    Dog Brothers Martial Arts
    1
    *One of the building blocks of the synergy between Chupa and Piper is precisely that each brings something to the other. Lloyd readily agrees that Piper is more of an inside fighting system. In that regard one of the things I said to Lloyd was that he needed to experience what in Dog Brothers and DBMA we humorously call "sport knife dueling". I connected him with Guro Lonely Dog Benjamin Rittiner of Switzerland (Lloyd now lives in Warsaw, Poland) and they played. Of his own accord and initiative Lloyd openly stated on his own pages that Benji got the better of him using what we call "the Chupacabra blitz". For me, this speaks very well of his character.

    *I should say though that Chupacabra is not really a SKD system. I am really big on asking "What is the problem being solved?" Though SKD is an outstanding and important training method, FWIW my sense of things is that knife duels are actually rather rare in the real world. Chupa is more about dealing with physically superior assailants who may or may not be armed, mobs, etc.

    *To be precise, though it also has a hammer grip curriculum (standard and reverse edge), Chupacabra is also primarily an ice pick system (standard and reverse edge).

    *Though some things will remain closed door, there will be downloads/DVDs. In essence, what is the point of leaving the field to valueless mercenary mindsets? Our teaching will be very much connected to the necessary moral and legal process for activating this skill set: Rules of Engagement, Cues of Criminal Assault, ST FOOM (Stay the F Off Of Me) Fences, and Witness Preparation and other things of that sort.

    *And yes, the Jordanian experience was quite special-- one I will remember.
    Last edited by Crafty Dog; 9/18/2018 11:54am at .

  7. #7

    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    225
    Style
    Dog Brothers Martial Arts
    2
    Just got back from five days at the Akita Tactical HQ (a.k.a. Kevin Carr's house with our factory having taken over his two car garage) in Emunclaw WA. Awesome view of Mt Ranier from his back deck!

    Lloyd de Jongh flew in from Warsaw, Poland (where he now lives) for the festivities. Very good times as Lloyd and I worked on our new system with Kevin (a former pro MMA fighter and a long time student of mine) chiming in.

    We came up with a name for the system that pleases us greatly and a design concept for the logo which Kevin is busy reifying right now. When it is done, the name and logo will be revealed.

    Really excited by what is happening here.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Log in