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  1. #11
    Raycetpfl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Tzadok View Post
    The TL;DW of this video.

    Catch wrestling is the bestest and stuff because leg locks and throws and stuff and Bjj fighters dont know leg locks...... get off my lawn.

    Meanwhile the Adcc medal Gold count by discipline:

    1 Gold for Sambo/Dagestani Freestyle: Karimula Barkalaev (1/1)
    2 Japanese Catch: Sanae Kikuta & Sayaka Shinoda
    3 Freestyle and subs from video tapes: Mark Kerr 2 at +99k and 1 in absolute. The only non bjj fighter to win an Absolute out of 12 ADCCs

    BJJ Gold Count: 83
    Last edited by Raycetpfl; 9/14/2018 12:40pm at .

  2. #12
    Michael Tzadok's Avatar
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    Pramek/Sambo/BJJ
    Quote Originally Posted by Raycetpfl View Post
    The TL;DW of this video.

    Catch wrestling is the bestest and stuff because leg locks and throws and stuff and Bjj fighters dont know leg locks...... get off my lawn.

    Meanwhile the Adcc medal Gold count by discipline:

    1 Gold for Sambo/Dagestani Freestyle: Karimula Barkalaev (1/1)
    2 Japanese Catch: Sanae Kikuta & Sayaka Shinoda
    3 Freestyle and subs from video tapes: Mark Kerr 2 at +99k and 1 in absolute. The only non bjj fighter to win an Absolute out of 12 ADCCs

    BJJ Gold Count: 83
    Catch response is that ADCC is a BJJ comp with rules that favor BJJ.
    Don't rely on theory if your life is at stake.

    "But now that you've anointed him as truthsayer, you'll be complicit with what happens when the next Jew comes here and is lambasted by an ultrasecular Rabbi" -W.Rabbit/Pship/Emily Dickinson/Earth Dragon/Self Proclaimed Editor Extraordinaire

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Tzadok View Post
    I'm saying all the modern catch guys in the US and UK trace their lineage back to "professional" wrestlers. I.E. entertainment wrestling. "Judo" Gene Lebell used to do it to, he was just honest about what he did and where the majority of his submission grappling came from.

    It wasn't called Catch-As-Catch-Can it was called Freestyle Wrestling. Hence in Brazil it is now Luta Livre(Freestyle Wrestling in Portuguese). Apparently in Brazil both the modern Olympic sport and the submission wrestling sport are called the same thing. Not quite as confusing as in Mexico where Lucha Libre(Freestyle Wrestling in Spanish) is both the masked entertainers and the International style wrestlers. Freestyle Wrestling was only ever briefly called Catch-As-Catch-Can in England in the mid-1800's operating under varying rule sets at county fairs.

    Now if you hang out in modern CACC circles both online and IRL, you would notice that there has been a recent resurgence in the attempts to discredit BJJ. Both in claiming that it is not effective, and that it has no history(essentially the Gracies never learned from Maeda, they just made it up, and Luis Franca and Oswaldo Fadda learned it all from the Carlos and Helio too).

    So now you got this video, clearly intended for English speakers who can't read Portuguese and won't pay attention to the newspaper clips in the background. Nearly every clip shown there calls Rufino dos Santos a Luta Livre player. Not a catch wrestler, and more importantly the clips predate when the video claims Luta Livre was "born".

    I might also point out that the same group claims that Karl Gotch taught Kimura the "double wrist armlock"(i.e. Kimura) that he used to defeat Helio Gracie. Only problem with that is that Kimura faced off against Helio in 1949 and Karl Gotch didn't arrive in Japan until 1960, but hey don't let things like history and dates get in the way of a good story.

    I'm not disputing that Rufino dos Santos beat Carlos Gracie. That is the nature of the fight game. Sometimes you win sometimes you lose. I'm disputing the BS propaganda line that is going along with it:
    thanks for clarifying.

  4. #14

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    A pair of curiosities:
    1) freestyle wrestling is "lotta libera" in italian, pretty similar to spanish and Portuguese. By Lotta libera we mean sport wrestling, the masked entertainment is called using the English word "wrestling", since we got this from the USA. When I read first on Bullshido that wrestling is common in USA high schools, I was surprised because I thought of the masked entertainers, it took to me some minutes to understand my error.

    2) udegarami (Judo name for the Kimura) is already present in the old book "Judo" by Yokoyama (1915), plus is present in a judo kata of, I think, the same period. It is the version from side control.

  5. #15

    Join Date
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    Melbourne, Australia
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    Bjj
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Tzadok View Post
    Catch response is that ADCC is a BJJ comp with rules that favor BJJ.
    Well thats a silly response. Slamming to defend a submission is allowed, no crossface and giving up a top position for a bottom one incurs negative points penalty (no pulling guard, or jumping guard). These are just three examples that are not in favour of bjj, however i do like the adcc ruleset. Its probably superior to ibjjf.

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