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  1. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    I think you are mistaken in your view that Tomiki was anti-sport in the early interview. It's a matter of context. I think he was speaking more in terms of training soldiers, for "real fighting". Linked to the higher ideals of "budo", for sure, but I don't see him as against sport in general.

    Obviously he matured in his ideas over time, as hopefully we all do. Plus, in the context of post-war Japan, any support of bujutsu would have to be very carefully framed.
    Well maybe not anti sport in the strict sense, but he saw sport as only a limited part of true budo/bujutsu.

    He certainly implies that Aikido is better than Judo for shinken shobu, and even later in his life he created the goshin jutsu that is very aikidoish; why he thought this I don't understand but maybe he focused on some specific things that he saw as shortfalls in Judo (like starting already from a grip situation).

    But I suspect that he just assumed that Aikido was more deadly because of his philosophic priors about what I called the samurai ideal.

    Slightly off topic my first Judo instructor was very big on traditional Judo and against sport Judo, when he explained to me Kano idea of jitakyoei (hope I wrote it correctly) I told him that he was similar to De Coubertin and he rebuked me, I'm happy to see that old Tomiki at least agreed with me.

    There is a link here IMHO in the creation of mass public education and the introduction of sport as an educative tool, that we can't see because we can't conceive of a world without mass education.

  2. #42
    W. Rabbit's Avatar
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    I think in the heat of the moment of physical or mental conflict, the semantic differences between "fighting" and "sport" blend together.

    I have felt close to dying while grappling, that's for damned sure. I'm positive in a few cases I was getting there due to heat exhaustion alone.

    So I don't get the logic of "that is budo, that is not". It's all budo to me.

    Ever notice how the taijitu itself looks like two people wrestlin?

  3. #43
    Diesel_tke's Avatar
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    I would like to call into question the term "fighting for your life". When people are in a hospital bed, unconscious, and literally just laying there while we wait to see if medication is going to work and if the body is going to recover. Doctor's will feverishly claim that the person is fighting for their life.

    Or how about fire fighting, which I've done before. When I was fighting fires, or squirting water on fires, does that mean if I squirt water on people that are resisting me, I'm fighting them?
    Combatives training log.

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  4. #44
    BKR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diesel_tke View Post
    I would like to call into question the term "fighting for your life". When people are in a hospital bed, unconscious, and literally just laying there while we wait to see if medication is going to work and if the body is going to recover. Doctor's will feverishly claim that the person is fighting for their life.

    Or how about fire fighting, which I've done before. When I was fighting fires, or squirting water on fires, does that mean if I squirt water on people that are resisting me, I'm fighting them?
    I see what you did there...
    Falling for Judo since 1980

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  5. #45
    DCS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MisterMR View Post
    Well maybe not anti sport in the strict sense, but he saw sport as only a limited part of true budo/bujutsu.
    He considered sport as an educational tool so... what kind of adults are we going to have allowing this guard pulling and butt scooting sillyness?


    But I suspect that he just assumed that Aikido was more deadly because of his philosophic priors about what I called the samurai ideal.
    And because things like...

    Last edited by DCS; 9/13/2018 3:28pm at .

  6. #46
    W. Rabbit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diesel_tke View Post
    does that mean if I squirt water on people that are resisting me, I'm fighting them?
    It depends on the amount of pressure vs the level of resistance.


  7. #47
    ermghoti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DCS View Post
    He considered sport as an educational tool so... what kind of adults are we going to have allowing this guard pulling and butt scooting sillyness?



    And because things like...

    What if he has a pointed stick?
    "Systema, which means, 'the system'..."

    Quote Originally Posted by strikistanian View Post
    DROP SEIONAGI ************! Except I don't know Judo, so it doesn't work, and he takes my back.
    Quote Originally Posted by Devil
    Why is it so goddamn hard to find a video of it? I've seen videos I'm pretty sure are alien spacecraft. But still no good Krav.
    Quote Originally Posted by Plasma
    At the point, I must act! You see my rashguard saids "Jiu Jitsu vs The World" and "The World" was standing in front me teaching Anti-Grappling in a school I help run.
    Quote Originally Posted by SoulMechanic
    Thank you, not dying really rewarding in more ways than I can express.

  8. #48
    hungryjoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ermghoti View Post
    What if he has a pointed stick?
    Is closer to bayonet. Look at the other end of the stick.

  9. #49
    ermghoti's Avatar
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    I meant uke.
    "Systema, which means, 'the system'..."

    Quote Originally Posted by strikistanian View Post
    DROP SEIONAGI ************! Except I don't know Judo, so it doesn't work, and he takes my back.
    Quote Originally Posted by Devil
    Why is it so goddamn hard to find a video of it? I've seen videos I'm pretty sure are alien spacecraft. But still no good Krav.
    Quote Originally Posted by Plasma
    At the point, I must act! You see my rashguard saids "Jiu Jitsu vs The World" and "The World" was standing in front me teaching Anti-Grappling in a school I help run.
    Quote Originally Posted by SoulMechanic
    Thank you, not dying really rewarding in more ways than I can express.

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