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  1. #1
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    Favourite Escapes WITH DETAILS You Learnt Later That Changed The Game

    Alright guys, I've been told by the head honcho that my game has come to a point where it won't progress until I start to get better on the bottom of mount, side control, and knee ride.

    Considering people fight as hard as they can to not be under my mount, side control, or knee ride, it has resulted in me having somewhat weirdly developed a half guard/ deep half game that I've been able to use to sweep and ultimately get on top over the past few years. This has resulted in me baiting people into my half guard and then once on top, using superior weight distribution (read: fat) for pressure and ultimately submission.

    By no means am I saying my top game is good, but from what I can tell, I'm being coached to the realisation that my top game is at the peak of what it will be until I start to develop my bottom game.

    So I've been putting myself under mount, side control and knee ride willingly (and unwillingly). I've found that people are in desperation mode to stay on top of me because they simply don't want my top pressure on them, which is great for me at the present because it means I have to escape people who are going hard trying to not let me escape. The issue is that the techniques to escape that I would normally use are being shut the **** down hard core.

    I know from experience that there is often a light bulb detail with every move, so am just looking for an archive of escapes AND the details that changed the game for you higher level grapplers.

    For example, the Bridge and Roll Escape, attaching the chest to the arm and trapping the same side leg. Details that "changed my perception" of the technique:

    1. Attach the chest to the arm not the other way round - secure the arm with hook grip on the forearm near the elbow and bring your chest up to the arm, as it is stronger than simply using your arms to bring it to your chest.
    2. Moving your head away from the side you're bridging to, and as you arch to bridge, look over your shoulder to where you're looking to roll to.

    Anyway, makes sense to me, maybe it means jack all to you. Hoping y'all have some input.
    GET A RED BELT OR DIE TRYIN'.
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  2. #2

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    Another detail that makes the trap and roll work well is to, when dealing with a more astute grappler, maintain bridge pressure to one side to get them to put their weight in position for a quick bridge to the other side.

    Frame and hip escape from bottom side control.
    One detail that is key for me is to remember that my frame is there to force them to allow my hip to move. NOT to move their body. Another key to that one is to turn your bottom knee in to a frame as well and use it to push yourself away from them to re-guard.

    Really, this is a key for all escapes. Moving yourself and not them. Get them to move for you so you don't have to work so hard.

  3. #3

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    This is probably ultra basic, but it took me some time to get it so:
    when bridging to bump the other guy out, remember that he has a weak point in the direction of your head, even if you can't bump him completely upwards it will still force him to post his hands on the mat so you might shrimp away.

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    Get in your car and drive off.
    Works very well in most circumstances.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by WFMurphyPhD View Post
    Get in your car and drive off.
    Works very well in most circumstances.
    Hmm. Adgrap seems like a poor place to troll. Even for as respected a personage as you Dr. Murphy.

    Besides, you know anyone as fat as Battlefields can't "get in his car" in any kind of tactically useful manner.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by AcerTempest View Post
    Hmm. Adgrap seems like a poor place to troll. Even for as respected a personage as you Dr. Murphy.

    Besides, you know anyone as fat as Battlefields can't "get in his car" in any kind of tactically useful manner.
    Let me explain another way:
    We tend to view things in terms of models, and our ways of thinking about our situation tend to self-constrain our possible choices.
    There are many grappling models (and other martial arts models, and other broader models) that have certain games expected within those models.
    Change the model, or play in a way not expected nor accounted for by the model, you sometimes get very different results.
    For example, hitting them in the face before attempting that stand up grappling technique,
    or attempt counter offense from within a position considered as inferior within the expected model using techniques from competitive systems that have offensive games from that position, etc.
    There are things I do which really annoy BJJ players but that Sambo players and/or wrestlers have highly trained responses to, and in some cases, vice-versa.
    Just like injecting things into grappling like striking while grappling, or finger grabs, or eye defense awareness or firearms retention can turn something that was wonderful in one model, into something horrible in the other model.
    Truth is elusive...there are useful models, but they are all situational and context dependent, which again, is why truth is elusive.
    To further complicate matters, combat sports are non-transitive games (think rock, paper, scissors), based not just on technique selection, or stylistic responses to situations, but also body types, and individual athletes opposing each other, and are own state of health and exhaustion versus our ability to bring anaerobic power and explosiveness as our state changes during an encounter.
    And in all cases the highest plane of escape is avoiding the situation that would necessitate an escape rather than having to expend the energy to need to escape at all.
    Last edited by Krampus; 7/19/2018 10:38am at .

  7. #7
    BKR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WFMurphyPhD View Post
    Let me explain another way:
    We tend to view things in terms of models, and our ways of thinking about our situation tend to self-constrain our possible choices.
    There are many grappling models (and other martial arts models, and other broader models) that have certain games expected within those models.
    Change the model, or play in a way not expected nor accounted for by the model, you sometimes get very different results.
    For example, hitting them in the face before attempting that stand up grappling technique,
    or attempt counter offense from within a position considered as inferior within the expected model using techniques from competitive systems that have offensive games from that position, etc.
    There are things I do which really annoy BJJ players but that Sambo players and/or wrestlers have highly trained responses to, and in some cases, vice-versa.
    Just like injecting things into grappling like striking while grappling, or finger grabs, or eye defense awareness or firearms retention can turn something that was wonderful in one model, into something horrible in the other model.
    Truth is elusive...there are useful models, but they are all situational and context dependent, which again, is why truth is elusive.
    To further complicate matters, combat sports are non-transitive games (think rock, paper, scissors), based not just on stylistic responses to situations, but also body types, and individual athletes opposing each other, and are own state of health and exhaustion versus our ability to bring anaerobic power and explosiveness as our state changes during an encounter.
    And in all cases the highest plane of escape is avoiding the situation that would necessitate an escape rather than having to expend the energy to need to escape at all.
    That's some wisdom right there. Teaching to a specific ruleset (model or submodel) restrains responses even within the broader model (of say, Judo). So much time on basics, I often see that constrain peoples creativity/thinking. But then watching high level Judo comps, I see a ton of creativity, so someone is thinking outside the box at least.

    As an example, I'm a righty in judo, but, go lefty when I am carrying a pistol. Cause do not present weapon closer to opponent...
    Falling for Judo since 1980

    "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

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  8. #8
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    When bridging, angle feet/legs away (this is when in side control/scarf) at about 45 degrees. Bridge up, then accelerate down/away. You make the space that way on the way down in which to shrimp/frame etc.

    30+ years of Judo, and when my BJJ coach showed it, I got goosebumps... and yeah, I knew how to shrimp and hip escape already.

    I already knew the bridge towards head thing.
    Falling for Judo since 1980

    "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

    "The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

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  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by WFMurphyPhD View Post
    Let me explain another way:
    We tend to view things in terms of models, and our ways of thinking about our situation tend to self-constrain our possible choices.
    There are many grappling models (and other martial arts models, and other broader models) that have certain games expected within those models.
    Change the model, or play in a way not expected nor accounted for by the model, you sometimes get very different results.
    For example, hitting them in the face before attempting that stand up grappling technique,
    or attempt counter offense from within a position considered as inferior within the expected model using techniques from competitive systems that have offensive games from that position, etc.
    There are things I do which really annoy BJJ players but that Sambo players and/or wrestlers have highly trained responses to, and in some cases, vice-versa.
    Just like injecting things into grappling like striking while grappling, or finger grabs, or eye defense awareness or firearms retention can turn something that was wonderful in one model, into something horrible in the other model.
    Truth is elusive...there are useful models, but they are all situational and context dependent, which again, is why truth is elusive.
    To further complicate matters, combat sports are non-transitive games (think rock, paper, scissors), based not just on technique selection, or stylistic responses to situations, but also body types, and individual athletes opposing each other, and are own state of health and exhaustion versus our ability to bring anaerobic power and explosiveness as our state changes during an encounter.
    And in all cases the highest plane of escape is avoiding the situation that would necessitate an escape rather than having to expend the energy to need to escape at all.
    There's that deep **** I knew you were getting at. But still, the OP asked the question within a specific contextual model, so I attempted to answer within that model.

    I could just as easily have said turn to your belly and wait for the ref to stand you up, but that would not have been useful within the context of the question.
    I agree that avoiding the need to escape is best, but what is your opinion of the idea of transitioning from retaining a defensive position to an escape early in order to disconcert your opponents rhythm and conserve energy?

    For example, abandoning a guard you suspect your opponent is about to pass anyway in order to set better frames for a side control escape.

    Or, to stick with your model of changing the dynamic and context, do you often do things when rolling from guard like stand up and back away to make your opponent come to you?

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by AcerTempest View Post
    There's that deep **** I knew you were getting at. But still, the OP asked the question within a specific contextual model, so I attempted to answer within that model.

    I could just as easily have said turn to your belly and wait for the ref to stand you up, but that would not have been useful within the context of the question.
    I agree that avoiding the need to escape is best, but what is your opinion of the idea of transitioning from retaining a defensive position to an escape early in order to disconcert your opponents rhythm and conserve energy?

    For example, abandoning a guard you suspect your opponent is about to pass anyway in order to set better frames for a side control escape.

    Or, to stick with your model of changing the dynamic and context, do you often do things when rolling from guard like stand up and back away to make your opponent come to you?
    There is an argument that for truly adversarial situations,
    one should never play into the model the opponent expects, prefers, or would be most comfortable in.
    One should make the opponent waste as much energy as possible,
    be as maximally psychologically frustrated and uncomfortable as possible,
    and in the most physical discomfort at all times.

    One of my teachers was a submission machine from the closed guard,
    and had a deceptively easy open guard to pass,
    and you would usually be tapping or rotating into a bottom position just as your brain was giving you the satisfying signal that you were going to pass his guard.
    He was the same person that Sakuraba paid for counter jiu-jitsu instruction prior to his fights with the Gracies.
    And as the case example of Sakuraba presents, why pass a guard when one can psychologically and physically punish someone for being so foolish as to put their back on the ground...?

    In all cases, as an older grappler, slow, with some progressive physical disability disease states,
    I rarely resist anything my opponent does, I merely attempt to serve them the dish they are seeking in a manner that they find as repugnant as possible, and use their efforts or desired goal against them.

    In fact, I consider it high play to arrange for an opponent to believe they are winning all the way until they realize they lost, and the matter is resolved,
    and even higher play if you can arrange to win without the other side realizing that you won, when you wish to.
    Last edited by Krampus; 7/19/2018 11:56am at .

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