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  1. #41
    Michael Tzadok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WFMurphyPhD View Post
    Again, fixes have always been part of the fight business, especially in non-lethal matches.
    Where there is big money surrounding fights or grappling, really many sports, there are fixes, and always have been.
    It is a profit maximizing device in many ways, even without the gambling fix,
    because the formula of:
    1) the favorite wins the first match, then
    2) the favorite has a controversial loss in the second match, then
    3) for the big tie breaking rematch has always been the best formula for promoters to maximize gate (and more recently viewership) revenues.
    The fight business has always been the entertainment business, and the gambling business, and PT Barnum would have done very well at it, and probably did with in circus ringer matches as I think about it.
    You are being overly pendantic Bill. There is a huge difference between promoters occasionally fixing fights and the predetermined and choreographed outcomes of modern professional wrestling.
    Don't rely on theory if your life is at stake.

    "But now that you've anointed him as truthsayer, you'll be complicit with what happens when the next Jew comes here and is lambasted by an ultrasecular Rabbi" -W.Rabbit/Pship/Emily Dickinson/Earth Dragon/Self Proclaimed Editor Extraordinaire

  2. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Tzadok View Post
    You are being overly pendantic Bill. There is a huge difference between promoters occasionally fixing fights and the predetermined and choreographed outcomes of modern professional wrestling.
    We also see, and have seen, in prize driven submission grappling tournaments at the highest levels, particularly when opponents from the same team or that had prior relationships, collude to snatch the quickest submission of the event bonuses.
    And cut insurance deals to split purses.
    Or take turns for podium positions.
    This happens.
    Whenever there is big money on the line, this is a part of the business.
    Of course, there is a difference between every time, and a big difference between the pure choreographed show events and competitive events where cheating, rigging, and "working together" to maximize revenues occurs.
    But it is still fundamentally a very similar business model, with very similar incentives and drivers.
    Last edited by WFMurphyPhD; 7/16/2018 8:46am at .

  3. #43
    Michael Tzadok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WFMurphyPhD View Post
    We also see, and have seen, in prize driven submission grappling tournaments at the highest levels, particularly when opponents from the same team or that had prior relationships, collude to snatch the quickest submission of the event bonuses.
    And cut insurance deals to split purses.
    Or take turns for podium positions.
    This happens.
    Whenever there is big money on the line, this is a part of the business.
    Of course, there is a difference between every time, and a big difference between the pure choreographed show events and competitive events where cheating, rigging, and "working together" to maximize revenues occurs.
    But it is still fundamentally a very similar business model, with very similar incentives and drivers.
    Doesn't even have to be money on the line. I've seen this stuff even in amateur tournaments in BJJ. Two people from the same club make it to the final, the coach decides which one takes gold. In some clubs it is the flip of a coin. In some it is arbitrary. In some it is the student who has been with that coach the longest. I've also seen this totally turn people off to the sport and them quit BJJ over it.
    Don't rely on theory if your life is at stake.

    "But now that you've anointed him as truthsayer, you'll be complicit with what happens when the next Jew comes here and is lambasted by an ultrasecular Rabbi" -W.Rabbit/Pship/Emily Dickinson/Earth Dragon/Self Proclaimed Editor Extraordinaire

  4. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Tzadok View Post
    You are being overly pendantic Bill. There is a huge difference between promoters occasionally fixing fights and the predetermined and choreographed outcomes of modern professional wrestling.
    Bill, overly pedantic? Say it ainít so!

  5. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by BJMills View Post
    Bill, overly pedantic? Say it ainít so!
    My posts are best read with strong coffee, strong liquor, or both.

  6. #46
    BKR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WFMurphyPhD View Post
    Well old farted.
    Official Emoji for old farting. Feel free to copy and use.
    Falling for Judo since 1980

    "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

    "The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

    "Banning BKR is like kicking a Quokka. It's foolishness of the first order." - Raycetpfl

  7. #47
    BKR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raycetpfl View Post
    True But BJJ made doing it in a Gi or swimming trunks cool again.
    Kosoto Gari/Gake and sitting on chest and punching, the classic school-yard combo...

    Not to mention headlock and punching...
    Falling for Judo since 1980

    "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

    "The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

    "Banning BKR is like kicking a Quokka. It's foolishness of the first order." - Raycetpfl

  8. #48
    BKR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raycetpfl View Post
    Helio and His sons never did fixed fights. In fact Pride was started so Rickson could fight Takada(Japanese Hulk Hogan) in a organization that didn't have fixed fights because Rickson refused to fight in the UWF pro wrestling organization because they did fixed fights.
    George and Carlson Gracie both admitted to doing pro wrestling style matches.
    thanks for the detailed info. I can't remember who was whom when with the Gracies. All those Rs that sound like H...
    Falling for Judo since 1980

    "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

    "The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

    "Banning BKR is like kicking a Quokka. It's foolishness of the first order." - Raycetpfl

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