1. #1

    Join Date
    Apr 2017
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    South Africa
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    Muay Thai/Judo (MuayJu?)

    Need advice on new gym after long period of no activity...

    Hi, All

    Not sure if I'm allowed to do this - so Mods please remove or adjust as is fit.

    Need some advice on a new gym I was looking at. I posted as an update to a thread that I started some time ago before I fell off training for a while - so not sure if anyone would actually read and reply (and wasn't sure if I should have just done it as a new post so hence this post).

    It on: https://www.bullshido.net/forums/sho...49#post2986049

    Any advice would be greatly appreciated...

  2. #2

    Join Date
    Apr 2017
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    South Africa
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    Quote Originally Posted by CraigShaw View Post
    Hi, All

    Not sure if I'm allowed to do this - so Mods please remove or adjust as is fit.

    Need some advice on a new gym I was looking at. I posted as an update to a thread that I started some time ago before I fell off training for a while - so not sure if anyone would actually read and reply (and wasn't sure if I should have just done it as a new post so hence this post).

    It on: https://www.bullshido.net/forums/sho...49#post2986049

    Any advice would be greatly appreciated...
    Decided to copy the post to here as well as the original is quite a few pages... Feedback anyone?

    Time for an extremely delayed update. Been so long, not sure if I should update here or start a new thread to get some replies.

    Delays turned into more delays and one day kept turning into another until pretty much a year has passed now and I've been out of training for most of it.

    Found a small gym close by to where I stay which let me come in for a free lesson and they guy is willing to charge me very little (R50 - which is just under $4 a lesson). He has a fight record but doesn't seem to have much experience as a teacher (at least from what I felt from the class).

    Class was very small. About maybe eight people (including the coach). There wasn't really much of a warm up. He just left everyone to do their own stretches and warm-up by doing speed kicks and semi-dancing knees with a partner. After that, we paired off and did a training drill where one partner held a hand out to keep the opponent at distance while the other hand guard up against face and tried to heard the opponent. He slowly adding in extra moves until we were all throwing combinations of punches, hooks, uppercuts while ducking and slipping.

    Now, I've got no problem with this, just that they seem to be very heavily boxing orientated.

    In the gym where I was training a year ago, the trainers gave me a lot of individual attention and focused on my strengths and helped me develop my own fighting "style" as such, which ended up being a mix of Muay Thai and Judo - and being comfortable in both orthodox and southpaw. Though while they did help me develop they also pointed out many weak areas and ways I was leaving myself open (and I took a few strong hooks to the head in the beginning). But the trainers took the way they saw me fighting and helped me develop the best way for me to avoid strikes and keep myself defended.

    Now I didn't really enjoy this new place. The way they were having me fight seemed to be "forced" and felt completely against everything I had previously developed.

    Some examples:

    1) I keep a relatively high guard with my elbows slightly off my body and am pretty much forward facing with a slight turn to the side so I can attack quickly with punches, elbows, knees, kicks and also check quickly with shins as well as side-step and tuck in with my elbows when needed to defend my flanks.

    However, these guys kept having me hunch down with elbows tucked tight in on my sides and hand guard right against my face.

    Now, I understand the principles here and the point behind the tucked in elbows and the "tight" hand guard, but it makes me feel very restricted. Throwing elbows seems slower. My vision is impaired by the "hiding" behind my guard and I feel less about to counter-fight like this.

    2) Don't know how to explain this one, but near the end of the lesson the coach paired me with a guy to work with me on bobbing and weaving. He had me tucked in tight in a slightly crouched stance bobbing from side to side "left-right-left-right" and then using that to throw punches while bobbing and also using the bobbing to duck under hooks.

    Now, again, I get the points behind this. However, in this hunched bobbing I feel very restricted from being able to throw kicks and don't see how I could ever throw an effective leg check quickly as my weight is all down on both legs and very "compact" - making me feel very "closed in" and heavy on my feet.

    Actually, aside from the warm-ups, we didn't throw any kicks at all.

    I also completely suck at ducking under punches due to my height so I dodge, side-step, lean out of range, etc. (And also I think ducking is a good way to get a knee in the face - I try be ready when throwing a hook to be able to snap up a knee if the guy ducks my hook).

    Now, I know I'm no where near perfect and have been off training for a year so am anything but in shape and fully rusty - but I'm not sure whether to continue with this guy (as he is very cheap and stated that he is all about the training then the money and would rather I be able to come to training then he makes hordes of money off me) or whether I should find somewhere else?

    I'm not against boxing - and when I used to train, if I tried to box a boxer I would get thrashed very quickly. But when fighting a boxer in a more "Muay Thaish way" I could hold my own.

    Now, again, I don't mind boxing and if the trainer was someone I was sure had a lot more experience in both fights and teaching I guess I would be more comfortable (though I may be incorrectly assuming he is new at coaching as I didn't ask about that). But I feel like a style is being forced on me that is against my "rhythm"

    At least I'll get more experience fighting boxers/K1 fighters - but what does it help if it is under a forced method?

    So I need some advice. Am I being a total unteachable dick? Should I stick it out? Some training is better than none? Do I find somewhere else? I seek the wisdom of the Bullshido masses...

  3. #3
    goodlun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    10,889
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    BJJ, FMA
    Well as a serial starter and oh **** life happens sort of person myself
    I will tell you this much, going back is hard, you feel like you should be doing better, but really you are starting over.
    The good news is **** will come back to you at a faster rate than the 1st time.
    Stick it out.
    As for the long post didn't read it so no comment.
    Of the single rapier fight between valiant men, having both skill, he that is the best wrestler, or if neither of them can wrestle, the strongest man most commonly kills the other, or leaves him at his mercy.
    –George Silver, Paradoxes of Defence

  4. #4
    Raycetpfl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Tampa Fl
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    Gracie Jiu Jitsu
    Quote Originally Posted by CraigShaw View Post
    Decided to copy the post to here as well as the original is quite a few pages... Feedback anyone?

    Time for an extremely delayed update. Been so long, not sure if I should update here or start a new thread to get some replies.

    Delays turned into more delays and one day kept turning into another until pretty much a year has passed now and I've been out of training for most of it.

    Found a small gym close by to where I stay which let me come in for a free lesson and they guy is willing to charge me very little (R50 - which is just under $4 a lesson). He has a fight record but doesn't seem to have much experience as a teacher (at least from what I felt from the class).

    Class was very small. About maybe eight people (including the coach). There wasn't really much of a warm up. He just left everyone to do their own stretches and warm-up by doing speed kicks and semi-dancing knees with a partner. After that, we paired off and did a training drill where one partner held a hand out to keep the opponent at distance while the other hand guard up against face and tried to heard the opponent. He slowly adding in extra moves until we were all throwing combinations of punches, hooks, uppercuts while ducking and slipping.

    Now, I've got no problem with this, just that they seem to be very heavily boxing orientated.

    In the gym where I was training a year ago, the trainers gave me a lot of individual attention and focused on my strengths and helped me develop my own fighting "style" as such, which ended up being a mix of Muay Thai and Judo - and being comfortable in both orthodox and southpaw. Though while they did help me develop they also pointed out many weak areas and ways I was leaving myself open (and I took a few strong hooks to the head in the beginning). But the trainers took the way they saw me fighting and helped me develop the best way for me to avoid strikes and keep myself defended.

    Now I didn't really enjoy this new place. The way they were having me fight seemed to be "forced" and felt completely against everything I had previously developed.

    Some examples:

    1) I keep a relatively high guard with my elbows slightly off my body and am pretty much forward facing with a slight turn to the side so I can attack quickly with punches, elbows, knees, kicks and also check quickly with shins as well as side-step and tuck in with my elbows when needed to defend my flanks.

    However, these guys kept having me hunch down with elbows tucked tight in on my sides and hand guard right against my face.

    Now, I understand the principles here and the point behind the tucked in elbows and the "tight" hand guard, but it makes me feel very restricted. Throwing elbows seems slower. My vision is impaired by the "hiding" behind my guard and I feel less about to counter-fight like this.

    2) Don't know how to explain this one, but near the end of the lesson the coach paired me with a guy to work with me on bobbing and weaving. He had me tucked in tight in a slightly crouched stance bobbing from side to side "left-right-left-right" and then using that to throw punches while bobbing and also using the bobbing to duck under hooks.

    Now, again, I get the points behind this. However, in this hunched bobbing I feel very restricted from being able to throw kicks and don't see how I could ever throw an effective leg check quickly as my weight is all down on both legs and very "compact" - making me feel very "closed in" and heavy on my feet.

    Actually, aside from the warm-ups, we didn't throw any kicks at all.

    I also completely suck at ducking under punches due to my height so I dodge, side-step, lean out of range, etc. (And also I think ducking is a good way to get a knee in the face - I try be ready when throwing a hook to be able to snap up a knee if the guy ducks my hook).

    Now, I know I'm no where near perfect and have been off training for a year so am anything but in shape and fully rusty - but I'm not sure whether to continue with this guy (as he is very cheap and stated that he is all about the training then the money and would rather I be able to come to training then he makes hordes of money off me) or whether I should find somewhere else?

    I'm not against boxing - and when I used to train, if I tried to box a boxer I would get thrashed very quickly. But when fighting a boxer in a more "Muay Thaish way" I could hold my own.

    Now, again, I don't mind boxing and if the trainer was someone I was sure had a lot more experience in both fights and teaching I guess I would be more comfortable (though I may be incorrectly assuming he is new at coaching as I didn't ask about that). But I feel like a style is being forced on me that is against my "rhythm"

    At least I'll get more experience fighting boxers/K1 fighters - but what does it help if it is under a forced method?

    So I need some advice. Am I being a total unteachable dick? Should I stick it out? Some training is better than none? Do I find somewhere else? I seek the wisdom of the Bullshido masses...


    Big power comes from kinetic linking.

  5. #5
    Diesel_tke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Pensacola, FL
    Posts
    4,586
    Style
    stick, pistol, rifle
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by CraigShaw View Post
    Decided to copy the post to here as well as the original is quite a few pages... Feedback anyone?

    Time for an extremely delayed update. Been so long, not sure if I should update here or start a new thread to get some replies.

    Delays turned into more delays and one day kept turning into another until pretty much a year has passed now and I've been out of training for most of it.

    Found a small gym close by to where I stay which let me come in for a free lesson and they guy is willing to charge me very little (R50 - which is just under $4 a lesson). He has a fight record but doesn't seem to have much experience as a teacher (at least from what I felt from the class).

    Class was very small. About maybe eight people (including the coach). There wasn't really much of a warm up. He just left everyone to do their own stretches and warm-up by doing speed kicks and semi-dancing knees with a partner. After that, we paired off and did a training drill where one partner held a hand out to keep the opponent at distance while the other hand guard up against face and tried to heard the opponent. He slowly adding in extra moves until we were all throwing combinations of punches, hooks, uppercuts while ducking and slipping.

    Now, I've got no problem with this, just that they seem to be very heavily boxing orientated.

    In the gym where I was training a year ago, the trainers gave me a lot of individual attention and focused on my strengths and helped me develop my own fighting "style" as such, which ended up being a mix of Muay Thai and Judo - and being comfortable in both orthodox and southpaw. Though while they did help me develop they also pointed out many weak areas and ways I was leaving myself open (and I took a few strong hooks to the head in the beginning). But the trainers took the way they saw me fighting and helped me develop the best way for me to avoid strikes and keep myself defended.

    Now I didn't really enjoy this new place. The way they were having me fight seemed to be "forced" and felt completely against everything I had previously developed.

    Some examples:

    1) I keep a relatively high guard with my elbows slightly off my body and am pretty much forward facing with a slight turn to the side so I can attack quickly with punches, elbows, knees, kicks and also check quickly with shins as well as side-step and tuck in with my elbows when needed to defend my flanks.

    However, these guys kept having me hunch down with elbows tucked tight in on my sides and hand guard right against my face.

    Now, I understand the principles here and the point behind the tucked in elbows and the "tight" hand guard, but it makes me feel very restricted. Throwing elbows seems slower. My vision is impaired by the "hiding" behind my guard and I feel less about to counter-fight like this.

    2) Don't know how to explain this one, but near the end of the lesson the coach paired me with a guy to work with me on bobbing and weaving. He had me tucked in tight in a slightly crouched stance bobbing from side to side "left-right-left-right" and then using that to throw punches while bobbing and also using the bobbing to duck under hooks.

    Now, again, I get the points behind this. However, in this hunched bobbing I feel very restricted from being able to throw kicks and don't see how I could ever throw an effective leg check quickly as my weight is all down on both legs and very "compact" - making me feel very "closed in" and heavy on my feet.

    Actually, aside from the warm-ups, we didn't throw any kicks at all.

    I also completely suck at ducking under punches due to my height so I dodge, side-step, lean out of range, etc. (And also I think ducking is a good way to get a knee in the face - I try be ready when throwing a hook to be able to snap up a knee if the guy ducks my hook).

    Now, I know I'm no where near perfect and have been off training for a year so am anything but in shape and fully rusty - but I'm not sure whether to continue with this guy (as he is very cheap and stated that he is all about the training then the money and would rather I be able to come to training then he makes hordes of money off me) or whether I should find somewhere else?

    I'm not against boxing - and when I used to train, if I tried to box a boxer I would get thrashed very quickly. But when fighting a boxer in a more "Muay Thaish way" I could hold my own.

    Now, again, I don't mind boxing and if the trainer was someone I was sure had a lot more experience in both fights and teaching I guess I would be more comfortable (though I may be incorrectly assuming he is new at coaching as I didn't ask about that). But I feel like a style is being forced on me that is against my "rhythm"

    At least I'll get more experience fighting boxers/K1 fighters - but what does it help if it is under a forced method?

    So I need some advice. Am I being a total unteachable dick? Should I stick it out? Some training is better than none? Do I find somewhere else? I seek the wisdom of the Bullshido masses...
    Stick it out. Go there consistently for 3 months. After that time frame look back at where you are. When I first started stick fighting, I had years and years of striking and grappling experience. Matter of fact, I was trading stick training for grappling training. When I first started, the stand up was so weird to me that I thought the teacher didn't know what he was talking about. But I said, F-it and stuck it out. In the end it changed my game considerably and when I went back and sparred with some people I used to train with they were blown away by my ability. I also felt like it was like fighting people who were dragging weights behind their feet.

    Point being, I was wrong and my instructor knew better than me. Use every opportunity to learn and grow your game.
    Combatives training log.

    Gezere: paraphrase from Bas Rutten, Never escalate the level of violence in fight you are losing. :D

    Drum thread

    Pavel Tsatsouline: kettlebell workouts give you “cardio without the dishonour of aerobics”.

  6. #6

    Join Date
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    South Africa
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    Muay Thai/Judo (MuayJu?)
    1
    Turning out to be a bit slow in getting back into things. Went to my second session with this new place. I got there a bit late but it seemed pretty much the same free-form class. Some others were arriving as I did and just kind of warmed up on there own so I tried to follow suite. The evening then pretty much consisted of free sparring and switching partners throughout the night.

    I only had one moment of instruction where the trainer worked with me on pads for punch combos for about one minute and the rest was just free switching sparring. I sucked extremely badly but would like to think I held my own at least a little - though when I paired up against one guy who was obviously much higher tier than the rest I got thrashed...

    Thanks, Diesel_tke. I will be sticking it out. If anything the lesson tonight taught me:

    1) I need to work on fitness and cardio. I got tired soo quickly which made me extremely sluggish and I struggled keeping my hands up.
    2) Some of the more advanced guys kept switching stances on me and I tried switching my own to match them, but I've completely lost all ability to fight in Southpaw.
    3) I no longer keep my chin down and felt a few punches in the back of my head when hit straight on in the front from the "snap-back".
    4) I eventually ended up relying heavily on teaps to try keep my partners back as once they closed in I was useless - though my teaps were useless too.
    5) I drop my guard way too often when throwing strikes and kicks.
    6) I suck at infighting.

    Regardless of all the above, I actually enjoyed tonight as it was kind of "adapt or get pummeled". Though I seem to have completely lost any ability to be offensive.

    Anyway, it was fun. My head still feels all those wacks and is blaming my slow and stupid reflexes. I did see a lot of openings for throws and had a few opportunities where I could have maybe pulled something like a Kouchi/Osoto/Harai Gari - though I wasn't sure throws were allowed (and later asked and found out they aren't unless specifically stated by the teacher for that lesson). Though I guess I would have only got myself in a worse position trying them if they were...

    On the plus side, the guy isn't very focused on getting payment and more that I show up for classes - So his heart is definitely in it.

    SIDE NOTE:
    The "high-tier" guy who slaughtered me told me afterwards that I didn't suck and that I mustn't compare myself to others and should focus on what works for me, drawing from the lessons and learning from the what works against the different sparring partners.

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