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  1. #111

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    Quote Originally Posted by DCS View Post
    Of course is not against for it is an illusion produced by the laws of physics at work.
    What about quantum mechanics?

  2. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by AcerTempest View Post

    The point Rayce and I are making is that having the responsibility of a minor child should be enough to make anyone choose not to take that last step.

    If not, then perhaps you are not as contributory to the world at large as we would have thought. Because you certainly caused more pain with your passing than you ever could have done good in life.
    You are using blanket statements when generalities hardly ever work. Simply because there are way too many variables at play. For example, I've seen crack heads raising babies to be crack heads. Do we really want that parent to stay in that kids life? No, we don't. We have kids being raised in abusive relationships where they are being raped and beaten by their parents. Do we really want that parent in that kid's life? No, we don't. In that case, if that parent kills himself, is the kid better off? Possibly, and most likely.

    Now, take that frame of mind and imagine that Anthony was thinking along the same lines. While not in that situation, we see it wasn't that extreme. But he didn't. He felt like what he was doing for his kid was more harm than good and that the kid was better off without him. Was he wrong? Maybe. But he knows things we don't know. You can't tell. Which is the point.

    I'm not saying this part is true, but say he was a child molester and couldn't control his urges. Then would you say he was better off killing himself than to put his kid through that?

    Point being, just because you are a parent doesn't automatically make you good for the kid. It doesn't automatically mean you are better for that kid than you being gone from the equation. Seems harsh, but that is the thought process some of these people are going through.
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  3. #113
    Raycetpfl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DCS View Post
    Of course is not against for it is an illusion produced by the laws of physics at work.
    String theory and the multiverse is a definite maybe.

  4. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diesel_tke View Post
    You are using blanket statements when generalities hardly ever work. Simply because there are way too many variables at play. For example, I've seen crack heads raising babies to be crack heads. Do we really want that parent to stay in that kids life? No, we don't. We have kids being raised in abusive relationships where they are being raped and beaten by their parents. Do we really want that parent in that kid's life? No, we don't. In that case, if that parent kills himself, is the kid better off? Possibly, and most likely.

    Now, take that frame of mind and imagine that Anthony was thinking along the same lines. While not in that situation, we see it wasn't that extreme. But he didn't. He felt like what he was doing for his kid was more harm than good and that the kid was better off without him. Was he wrong? Maybe. But he knows things we don't know. You can't tell. Which is the point.

    I'm not saying this part is true, but say he was a child molester and couldn't control his urges. Then would you say he was better off killing himself than to put his kid through that?

    Point being, just because you are a parent doesn't automatically make you good for the kid. It doesn't automatically mean you are better for that kid than you being gone from the equation. Seems harsh, but that is the thought process some of these people are going through.
    I would tend to agree here as well:"always" is almost never true.

  5. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by DCS View Post
    Of course is not against for it is an illusion produced by the laws of physics at work.
    That is a lot of law, man...

    I agree, though.

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  6. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by lant3rn View Post
    What about quantum mechanics?
    It seems quantum indeterminism is not really relevant for free will not even implies it, even worse... our behavior would be a product of quantum ramdomness.

  7. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by DCS View Post
    It seems quantum indeterminism is not really relevant for free will not even implies it, even worse... our behavior would be a product of quantum ramdomness.
    Only the really crazy ones...
    Falling for Judo since 1980

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  8. #118

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    Quote Originally Posted by DCS View Post
    It seems quantum indeterminism is not really relevant for free will not even implies it, even worse... our behavior would be a product of quantum ramdomness.
    So your telling me there is a chance i'm just an agent of chaos? :D

  9. #119

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diesel_tke View Post
    You are using blanket statements when generalities hardly ever work. Simply because there are way too many variables at play. For example, I've seen crack heads raising babies to be crack heads. Do we really want that parent to stay in that kids life? No, we don't. We have kids being raised in abusive relationships where they are being raped and beaten by their parents. Do we really want that parent in that kid's life? No, we don't. In that case, if that parent kills himself, is the kid better off? Possibly, and most likely.

    Now, take that frame of mind and imagine that Anthony was thinking along the same lines. While not in that situation, we see it wasn't that extreme. But he didn't. He felt like what he was doing for his kid was more harm than good and that the kid was better off without him. Was he wrong? Maybe. But he knows things we don't know. You can't tell. Which is the point.

    I'm not saying this part is true, but say he was a child molester and couldn't control his urges. Then would you say he was better off killing himself than to put his kid through that?

    Point being, just because you are a parent doesn't automatically make you good for the kid. It doesn't automatically mean you are better for that kid than you being gone from the equation. Seems harsh, but that is the thought process some of these people are going through.
    Yeah, on reflection that part does seem a little over-generalized. That said, I still think it is generally true. I did some volunteerism for a while as a child advocate for the court system.
    We would see kids taken away in the ABSOLUTE WORST situations. But whenever it happened, the kids usually asked the same questions. When can I go home? When can I see mom/dad/grandpa again?

    The love of a child and the loss and pain they feel is very real and while we can objectively say that this or that thing will make them better off, we also cannot deny the very real psychological trauma they must undergo when this sort of thing happens.

    Perhaps he WAS thinking along the lines you suggest. We will never know. And yet, there is no evidence to suggest it was objectively true. We can never know what the voices in his head were telling him, so we can only judge what we can observe, and what we can observe is a lot of pain left in the wake of an apparently beloved mans passing.

  10. #120

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bneterasedmynam View Post
    Blaming someone for depression is like blaming someone for getting hit by a fucking meteor, except the meteor is more humane.
    Sometimes people are depressed because they're shitty people. I've felt that way a lot. The trouble with blame, though, is that in the Internet you can blame people you've never met a world away for reasons that only make sense to you, without any real understanding of what the hell happened.

    I like to cook, I like to eat, so I liked Tony. What I didn't realize what how fucked up his head was behind all of CNN's bells and whistles.

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