1. #1

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    3 Denver Co schools claiming to offer San Shou / SanDa

    First 2 seem like they could possibly be legit; one instructor claims to be ex-military and offer firearms instruction (descended from a family of Chinese nationalists fighting Mao communists during WW2 to be more specific) although Im aware there's plenty of military bullshido out there these days as well. Third one looks like a burger kwoon to me.

    Any experiences?
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    Ho's school of CMA (the military guy):
    hosschoolofchinesemartialarts

    Denver Shaolin Kung Fu Academy:
    denvershaolinkungfuacademy

    National Martial Arts Academy:
    wushunmaa

  2. #2
    ermghoti's Avatar
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    Their fight records should tell most of the story.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint_Deadhand View Post
    one instructor claims to be ex-military and offer firearms instruction (descended from a family of Chinese nationalists fighting Mao communists during WW2 to be more specific)
    A
    This line activated the "cool story,bro" alarms. IIRC San Shou was basicly the CQB curriculum for the PLA. Pre civil war nationalists would never have been exposed to what we now know to be San Shou ( as there was a Soviet influence). In the best of cases this guy teaches a personal hybrid of his own experience, IMHO. But the story as mentioned above simply cannot be true.

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    I was looking for self defense videos, didn't see any. The sparring was kids.
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  5. #5
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    It all depends. San Da/San Shou is basically the kickboxing application of your CMA style. I trained in a school that had very successful San Da competitors. Basically we did our CMA training which was primarily Xingyi and Tai Chi, then when a Sanda competition was coming up, the training would include less forms, more sparring, and Sanda focused drills.
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  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diesel_tke View Post
    It all depends. San Da/San Shou is basically the kickboxing application of your CMA style. I trained in a school that had very successful San Da competitors. Basically we did our CMA training which was primarily Xingyi and Tai Chi, then when a Sanda competition was coming up, the training would include less forms, more sparring, and Sanda focused drills.
    That's basically all you need to know to answer your question. I wish I had links to back up my following observations, but from what I have seen there are basically 3 types of "San Shou":

    1) Old school Lei Tai fighting from before the Cultural Revolution, dating back to whenever Chinese Culture started setting up stages in the center of towns and villages. (Just for example, two-man Tai Chi drills/forms are called "San Shou", an indirect reference to this practice.)

    2) At some point pre-UFC a type of professional kickboxing emerged in China, that had more grappling (throws scored higher than strikes, and I never understood what the rest of the grappling rules were) than the first generation K-1 kickboxing-type competitions. This is most often referred to as "Sanda." The Chinese military had something to do with the proliferation of this type of striking competition. (I THINK they were interested in the Thai military having people with kickboxing backgrounds.)

    3) In the early 90's, kung fu systems 'round-the-world were tired of Kumite-Point-Fighting (think Karate Kid tournament only a lot less contact and more safety gear) being the main way for CMA to compete against each other. Tournament rules that allowed both limited strikes and limited grappling (no ground fighting) had started becoming common in North America by the year 2000, influenced by 1 and 2 above.

    At some point China's Wushu (part of their formal physical education) was involved in 3 above. When they say "San Shou" they mean 3, from what I gather. In that system, the PRC's public education people have tried to make generic, performance-oriented versions of common types of CMA, and atheletes tend to focus on only a few of those types to compete in. San Shou in that context, though #3 above, might be the only type of kung fu a (very competent) athlete might participated in.

    1 and 3 were ALWAYS meant for CMA schools to compete against each other, even though in the PRC (and in countries imitating the PRC's education system like Indonesia) it seems that there are people that train just to compete in 3 and aren't doing much else for martial arts wise. (And I am not saying that's a bad thing, I am just saying that's where the two different views of 3 come from.)

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint_Deadhand View Post
    Ho's school of CMA (the military guy):
    hosschoolofchinesemartialarts
    I don't see any claims of him training people for any form of striking competition on his website, no mention of San Shou or Sanda that I see... it's certainly not one of his classes he offers...

    Denver Shaolin Kung Fu Academy:
    denvershaolinkungfuacademy
    Looking at the class schedule, there is a "sparring" class x1 per week. This is problematic because the implication is there is NOT sparring in the other classes.

    BUT compare that schedule to this schedule in Seattle with a CMA school known for sparring practices:
    1) Kickboxing classes specifically x2 per week
    2) Their push hands classes have been separated from the other Tai Chi class (because it is basically no-gi Chinese wrestling in their case.) x2 per week.
    3) Wudang sword sparring (haven't seen it with my own eyes but have seen that it involves protective hand gear and metal blunts).
    4) In a school like that you will experience some sparring in most of the classes.

    So "sparring" x1 per week? Red Flag on this one. When I learned CMA, boxing and kickboxing was x6 per week. There is a Shoulin guy in Seattle who is one of the proponents of San Shou around here. Though very late to the table, the Shoulin Temple in China did take up San Shou competition, and now supposedly has competent kick boxers, an some of the people who go there to train now come back with a taste for San Shou.

    Martial Arts Academy:
    wushunmaa
    http://wushunmaa.com/Home/Schedule

    They train in sparring related stuff frequently enough that yeah maybe they might have some kind of recognizable San Shou program. You would have to visit and see if they do anything like this:

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