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  1. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raycetpfl View Post
    Indeed it did......
    Perhaps you should have Sir Elton John or Sir Paul McCartney teach you how to fight. They would be as informative on the subject as Classical Ju Jitsu teachers would be.
    I mean, sort of.

    It looked like it with the caveat that weapons were at play and were the goal, not unarmed finishes. So you have things like moves designed to set people up for a stab through an armor gap and things like that.

    Also certain techniques are way less developed in regards to the guard. It's there, but not as sophisticated.

    Less focus on positional dominance than on neutralizing an opponent and getting off your back. Similar result but different focus.

    There are differences in how it would have looked. But not as many as people who have never fought think.

  2. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by BackFistMonkey View Post
    LOL thank you! You are very entertaining and wrong.

    There is no surviving "Classical Jiu Jitsu" which was a battlefield art.
    You have the surviving Jujutsu, which was not a "battlefield art" it was a dueling, policing, and peace keeping art.



    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^This^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

  3. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by DCS View Post
    Are you aware about the fact todays Greco-Roman wrestling is a recent invention and there has not been a direct transmission from the Antiquity?

    Greco-Roman wrestling is a textbook example of Invented Tradition.
    I think the modern form of Greco Roman was inspired by the style of wrestling popular in Napoleon's army.

  4. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by remington50 View Post
    :eye roll:

    So where did jiujitsu come from? You should read up on the battle of Agincourt. Same principle. Men in armor fight very poorly from their back. This is universal knowledge to people who fought in armor. If you think the Japanese were late in learning that concept...then you are just being racist. And dumb.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Even Sushi did not originate in Japan, it was an import.
    History surrounding martial arts in Japan has really been iteratively improved upon the way a good Irishman does not let the facts get in the way of a good story.
    If you want to find real martial arts technology and warfare prowess from that part of the world, look to the Mongol Empire.
    Kano Sensei was a brilliant educator, and equally a student of western arts and sciences, as well as the good things to be learned from China, and his own country, not just when in came to Jiu-Jitsu, but really as someone concerned with the philosophies and pedagogies he thought were necessary to educate his own country, and to some extent, educate the world.
    Regarding Classical JuJutsu and the Samurai, we can only speculate, but I suspect that Japanese men at arms would prioritize spear work and archery (absent firearms), and bladework, and then weaponless work.
    And Kano Sensei certainly pulled from Western hand to hand arts (such as western wrestling), as well as Sumo, and JuJutsu teachers, and then later even Aikido and Karate when developing the Kodokan curriculums and teaching repertoires.
    The fish gets bigger every time the story is told, as in all things.
    Last edited by WFMurphyPhD; 4/20/2018 5:06pm at .

  5. #45
    DCS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WFMurphyPhD View Post
    I think the modern form of Greco Roman was inspired by the style of wrestling popular in Napoleon's army.
    Look for French circus strongman Jean Broyasse.

  6. #46
    BKR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WFMurphyPhD View Post
    Even Sushi did not originate in Japan, it was an import.
    History surrounding martial arts in Japan has really been iteratively improved upon the way a good Irishman does not let the facts get in the way of a good story.
    If you want to find real martial arts technology and warfare prowess from that part of the world, look to the Mongol Empire.
    Kano Sensei was a brilliant educator, and equally a student of western arts and sciences, as well as the good things to be learned from China, and his own country, not just when in came to Jiu-Jitsu, but really as someone concerned with the philosophies and pedagogies he thought were necessary to educate his own country, and to some extent, educate the world.
    Regarding Classical JuJutsu and the Samurai, we can only speculate, but I suspect that Japanese men at arms would prioritize spear work and archery (absent firearms), and bladework, and then weaponless work.
    And Kano Sensei certainly pulled from Western hand to hand arts (such as western wrestling), as well as Sumo, and JuJutsu teachers, and then later even Aikido and Karate when developing the Kodokan curriculums and teaching repertoires.
    The fish gets bigger every time the story is told, as in all things.
    No need to suspect, there is quite a bit authoritative work on the history of military arts in Japan, their development and history.
    Falling for Judo since 1980

    "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

    "The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

    "Banning BKR is like kicking a Quokka. It's foolishness of the first order." - Raycetpfl

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by WFMurphyPhD View Post
    Even Sushi did not originate in Japan, it was an import.
    As tempura.

  8. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    No need to suspect, there is quite a bit authoritative work on the history of military arts in Japan, their development and history.
    The problem is, the Japanese rival the Irish as story tellers.

    We know Musashi was a good swords person because he told us so in his autobiographical accounts.

    The Hagakure was written long after the Samurai were transformed into a bureaucratic larp class.

    The Ninja myths strongly resemble Count Dracula style tourist stories.

    There is cheating in Sumo, but not officially.

    Regarding authoritative accounts, Japan has not historically been good at transparency, so can one imagine reconstructing real history from a culture that prizes read between the lines communication and outright denials by pouring through letters containing that degree of sublety?

    Very challenging.

    People love myths about the Japanese, though, including the Japanese.

  9. #49
    Raycetpfl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AcerTempest View Post
    I mean, sort of.

    It looked like it with the caveat that weapons were at play and were the goal, not unarmed finishes. So you have things like moves designed to set people up for a stab through an armor gap and things like that.

    Also certain techniques are way less developed in regards to the guard. It's there, but not as sophisticated.

    Less focus on positional dominance than on neutralizing an opponent and getting off your back. Similar result but different focus.

    There are differences in how it would have looked. But not as many as people who have never fought think.
    Your sarcasm detector seems to be on the fritz.

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