1. #1

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    "Golden Knights" a "Zen do kai" split-off (South Australia)

    Hi everyone, (Hoping i posted in the right spot here)

    I've heard from several sources about a free self defense class being run by the one of our state universities (Adelaide University). I didn't attend any of these classes but they were brought up on the regular. No red flags and I actually thought it was a good thing to encourage when it's free especially.

    I've now heard from my partner (still in university) that she was approached and encouraged to do it. Having her bull**** radar on full she inquired about what styles or system they are teaching people. The guy said it's instructed by a teacher from the "Golden Knights" (Red flag 1) which is a martial arts group that split off from "Zen Do Kai" (Red flag 2). Having already been convinced about Zen Do Kai (Bob Jones, AUS/NZ) having Mcdojo/Bullshido status i'm now suspicious they are using the free self defense classes to basically recruit into one of their many "Golden Knight" branches across south Australia.

    I'm planning to attend both the self defense class and visit a branch near me (supposedly does kendo stuff as well from the pictured I saw) to give a proper and accurate report on what's going on and so I can confirm Mcdojo/Bullshido status. Is there a specific way to do this to fit a standard for accurate reporting of quality. The gradings I saw online (youtube) did not impress. Poor use of traditional karate blocks and stances then absolute overacting/ excessive movements for the "self defense" section of the grading.

    My biggest concern is the damage these people could potentially be doing teaching bullshido to people (Apparently most of the staff have done the classes). Overconfidence with unrealistic garbage in a life/death scenario can get you killed or worse.

    Cheers,

  2. #2
    Christmas Spirit's Avatar
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    These guys and gals?
    http://www.goldenknightskarate.com/instructors/ cause all I see is normal hohum stripmall asian themed adult daycare. But you aren't even talking about them but someone who broke off from them? Am I missing the name of the instructor or group?
    “I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.”
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    "Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past."
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  3. #3

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    That's the american bunch.

    Can't link you the Australian bunch yet but type in golden knights south Australia and you'll get it. You'll also get the gradings i talked about if you searched youtube.

    Apparently the "golden knights" were a split off from the bob jones zen do kai here in Australia.

    Golden knights apparently helps run/runs the self defense class at the University.

    I should have been a bit more clear in my first post. On a side note do we just make articles on these groups here or is there a way to discourage people from falling into the trap of Mcdojos.

    I'm a music teacher and parents/ people in general just don't know when they have no prior background on things. I get drum students that can't hold the sticks are several years with a previous teacher. Or piano students never taught a scale. So obviously the same stuff happens with martial arts.
    Last edited by kazkar; 3/03/2018 3:03am at . Reason: typos and forgot info

  4. #4
    Christmas Spirit's Avatar
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    You should be able to post links after making a few posts.Try not to necro (resurrect) threads older than a year or two unless you really have a question or some insight. Each forum has its own rules. The MABS forum (the one you are in) is strongly moderated so check this list https://www.bullshido.net/forums/forum.php and hit Gen BS or YMAS if you want to post with less pressure.
    “I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.”
    BILL HICKS,
    1961-1994

    "Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past."
    ---Jean-Paul Sartre

  5. #5
    Ice Hole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BackFistMonkey View Post
    These guys and gals?
    http://www.goldenknightskarate.com/instructors/ cause all I see is normal hohum stripmall asian themed adult daycare. But you aren't even talking about them but someone who broke off from them?
    It's the other way around. ZDK is a Bullshido deep cut (pre 2010). Apparently there have been generational effects from ZDK and it is now infesting academia.

    FYI, I doubt it's really "free" as in beer, according to the history.
    Last edited by Ice Hole; 3/04/2018 2:17am at .

  6. #6

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    https://goldenknights.com.au/programs-and-services/

    Think this is the guys in question.

    To anyone curious about bob jones, hes like australia’s equivilent of ed parker to lesser degree.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kravbizarre View Post
    https://goldenknights.com.au/programs-and-services/

    Think this is the guys in question.

    To anyone curious about bob jones, hes like australia’s equivilent of ed parker to lesser degree.
    I guess you meant https://goldenknights.com.au/about/ ?

    Anyways, it seems suspicious to say the least:

    He [i.e. Gary MacRae, founding master of the Golden Knights] began his karate training in 1979 under the instruction of Ed Skipter a talented instructor of Bob Jones’s style of karate, Zen Do Kai. [...] He opened his first karate school in Aldgate in March, 1981, as a Brown Belt and achieved his black belt the following month on ANZAC Day. [...] Through the early ’80s with the help of his growing band of black belts, he established numerous other schools in and around Adelaide and also interstate. Much of his personal training was done under Zen Do Kai’s founding master Bob Jones.
    This text basically establishes that he had no contact with Karate at all until 1979, started his own school in two years time and in five years time has had several black belts trained that opened their own schools.

    I mean, really? A guy who never did martial arts before? If I would have pushed for it, I could have made my black belt in Judo in 4,5 years, but with rather 6 trainings a week, not 4 (as the text says for this guy). I did do kid's classes after two years as well as a co-instructor, but opening your own school is a completely different game.

  8. #8

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    Knights and Japanese stuff.

    Yeah. Totally fit together.

  9. #9

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    I would love to know who presented him with his black belt in Judo.

    In accordance with the accepted requirements, Gary was nominated and promoted to 6th Dan Black Belt in December, 1991, at a Golden Knights major grading. On the same day he presented his Judo Black Belt grading which was a thrill to the hundreds of Knights students present.
    The website descriptions make the school sound like one steaming pile of McDojo, but being involved with Judo and BJJ locally it would only take a few minutes to ascertain the legitimacy of the grappling component in his school. If you haven't gone to a class yet I'd be more than happy to tag along with you!

    As a reservist in training myself, the fact he mentions his military service interests me.

    IET Cultana SA Early 1976

    In 1976 Gary volunteered for service in the Australian Defence Forces and served in the arm with the 3rd Battalion Royal Australian Regiment located at the time at Woodside, South Australia. He was employed as an infantry soldier who was trained in several specialist roles. His marksmanship skills were acknowledged and he undertook sniper training. He also spent time as a Mortarman and unit Physical Training Instructor.

    In 1977, as part of the Australia’s Five-Power Defence Agreement, he completed a tour of duty as part of a ground forces contingent guarding the Air Base at Butterworth, Malaysia.
    He claims to have enlisted and completed his Infantry training in Cultana, SA in '66, deploys to Malaysia in '77, but also had his marksmanship skills recognised as was supposedly trained as a sniper. What seems off to me is the fact he claims to have been with 3RAR in Woodside, yet he completed his infantry training in Cultana, SA. Traditionally (from what I know, I could be wrong) all infantry in the regular army completed their training at the School of Infantry in Singleton, NSW. Adelaide, and the military community especially, is close knit. Immediately I am skeptical about the accuracy of how he has represented himself in regards to his Judo and his military career, and his whole bio stinks of 'grandmaster syndrome', but I'm sure we would have a lot to talk about if we were to meet face to face.
    Last edited by soyboy; 6/24/2018 4:09am at .

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