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  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by DCS View Post
    You sure?
    Pretty much. It was like "if the opponent knows jiu jitsu, he's free to use whatever technique he knows".

    Found it: http://judoinfo.com/rules/

    Apparently kicks were barred (my bad), but no strikes and submission forms now forbidden.

  2. #12
    DCS's Avatar
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    I don't consider "The Complete Kano Jiu-Jitsu" by Hancock and Higashi a reliable source about early Kodokan Judo.

  3. #13
    BKR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DCS View Post
    I don't consider "The Complete Kano Jiu-Jitsu" by Hancock and Higashi a reliable source about early Kodokan Judo.
    Neither do I for that matter.
    Falling for Judo since 1980

    "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

    "The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

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  4. #14

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    After some research I again stand corrected: Kano himself stated in 1928 after having been handed an exemplar of this book in Berlin that whoever wrote this book probably never had studied Kodokan Judo (Sakko, 7:12, 1928).

    Apparently, the early Dai Nippon Butokukai rules from 1899 already barred atemi techniques, locks of fingers, toes, wrists and ankles (but not knees and neck).

    Some sources cite Kano himself speaking about how opponents should wear gloves when using atemi in randori in the 1880s, but sources seem inconclusive.

    Kano definitely wanted students to train kime-no-kata and other katas including atemi techniques (also setting up throws) and regularly presented those katas to the public. And he thought about reintroducing them into randori in the 1920s (see A. Bennet, Jigoro Kano and the Kodokan - An Innovative Response to Modernization, Kodokan Judo Institute, Tokyo 2009, p. 62)

  5. #15
    BKR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Falenay View Post
    After some research I again stand corrected: Kano himself stated in 1928 after having been handed an exemplar of this book in Berlin that whoever wrote this book probably never had studied Kodokan Judo (Sakko, 7:12, 1928).

    Apparently, the early Dai Nippon Butokukai rules from 1899 already barred atemi techniques, locks of fingers, toes, wrists and ankles (but not knees and neck).

    Some sources cite Kano himself speaking about how opponents should wear gloves when using atemi in randori in the 1880s, but sources seem inconclusive.

    Kano definitely wanted students to train kime-no-kata and other katas including atemi techniques (also setting up throws) and regularly presented those katas to the public. And he thought about reintroducing them into randori in the 1920s (see A. Bennet, Jigoro Kano and the Kodokan - An Innovative Response to Modernization, Kodokan Judo Institute, Tokyo 2009, p. 62)
    Kime no kata a is not a practical atemi waza drill.
    Falling for Judo since 1980

    "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

    "The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

    "Banning BKR is like kicking a Quokka. It's foolishness of the first order." - Raycetpfl

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Falenay View Post
    After some research I again stand corrected: Kano himself stated in 1928 after having been handed an exemplar of this book in Berlin that whoever wrote this book probably never had studied Kodokan Judo (Sakko, 7:12, 1928).

    Apparently, the early Dai Nippon Butokukai rules from 1899 already barred atemi techniques, locks of fingers, toes, wrists and ankles (but not knees and neck).

    Some sources cite Kano himself speaking about how opponents should wear gloves when using atemi in randori in the 1880s, but sources seem inconclusive.

    Kano definitely wanted students to train kime-no-kata and other katas including atemi techniques (also setting up throws) and regularly presented those katas to the public. And he thought about reintroducing them into randori in the 1920s (see A. Bennet, Jigoro Kano and the Kodokan - An Innovative Response to Modernization, Kodokan Judo Institute, Tokyo 2009, p. 62)
    Reading some of the writings of Jigoro Kano, I was left with the impression that atemi waza was always intended to be isolated to kata.

    "The primary training methods for either purpose are (1) kata and (2) randori.

    Kata, which means 'form', is a system of prearranged movements that teach the fundamentals of attack and defense. In addition to throwing and holding (also practiced in randori), it includes hitting, kicking, stabbing, slashing and a number of other techniques. These latter occur only in kata because it is only in kata that the movements are prearranged and each partner knows what the other will do."

  7. #17
    TheMightyMcClaw's Avatar
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    So, there's a couple variants on this concept:
    -Striking to set up a shot
    This has already been touched up and my shot is straight garbage, so I don't have much to add here; generally speaking, a string of high punches to bring your opponents hands up is one of the "classic" setups for a shot.
    -Striking to enter the clinch
    I much prefer to enter the clinch when they other person is striking; I find it easier to enter with a dominant clinch position when the other person's arms are away from their body, and that means while they're punching. In order to facilitate this, I'll try and play an outboxing-style with low kicks in order to goad the other person into closing with combination punches. When this happens, that's my cue to close, moving through punching range (where I personally am weakest) into clinching range (where I tend to be strongest). There's obvious risk of eating heavy shots there, since you're deliberately moving towards punches.
    -Striking to set up a takedown in the clinch
    Generally speaking: when people want to avoid takedowns, they bring their hips out; when they want to avoid knees, they want to bring their hips in. As such, you can use knees and the threat of knees to control your opponent's posture. For me, having a strong MMA clinch game is a "hammer and anvil" between takedowns and knees, wherein they're either backing out and exposing themselves to strikes or pressuring in and exposing themselves to getting taken down.
    The fool thinks himself immortal,
    If he hold back from battle;
    But old age will grant him no truce,
    Even if spears spare him.

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