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  1. #1
    battlefields's Avatar
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    Size Vs Strength - Separated but Together but Separated

    Okay, I'll keep this brief despite the fact that I know you cats love it when my verbosity is at peak verbiage with so much loquacity.

    I've been working on decreasing the fatness of my body, because I am fat. Like, 120kgs fat. As in, 264lb fat. My method has been simple, train at least once a day. This method has been unsuccessful. I eat and drink too much. That's fine, I am working on that, bit of keto, bit of not drinking beer, that should work for the fatness. That's a lead in because it is kinda relevant.

    I also should mention that I feel like I am back to a very base fitness level, like I have been training for a couple of months, but no longer, after the coma mid last year, so I am nowhere near where I was prior to that.

    Essentially I have been trying to put size on the upper body, bit of aesthetic work, nahmean? I find that when I reach a certain size on my chest and shoulders I can get away with a bit of a stomach. So I'm doing all the preening exercises, and of course I am bicep curling like a ************. That's all good, I want to get size up top before the fat loss really starts taking effect because the fat leaves there first, leaving me with strong, but smaller upper body, and a protruding stomach. So if I build the upper body, this effect will be minimised in theory.

    Doing a higher volume, lower weight program for that, like 4x10-5x10, depending on weights (if 5x10 is easy, put more weight on). Following a method I learnt years ago that worked for size, so I'm sticking to it.

    The thing is, I have the fat stomach and fat thighs. So a fat mid section. I don't need size here. But I do need strength. So, my question is, with the above in mind, is mixing and matching a strength program (5x5, 3x5 squat, dead) with my lower body and a size program with my upper body recommended? And if not, why not?
    GET A RED BELT OR DIE TRYIN'.
    Quote Originally Posted by Devil View Post
    I think Battlefields and I had a spirited discussion once about who was the biggest narcissist. We both wanted the title but at the end of the day I had to concede defeat. Can't win 'em all.
    Quote Originally Posted by BackFistMonkey View Post
    I <3 Battlefields...

  2. #2
    ChenPengFi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by battlefields View Post
    Okay, I'll keep this brief despite the fact that I know you cats love it when my verbosity is at peak verbiage with so much loquacity.

    I've been working on decreasing the fatness of my body, because I am fat. Like, 120kgs fat. As in, 264lb fat. My method has been simple, train at least once a day. This method has been unsuccessful. I eat and drink too much. That's fine, I am working on that, bit of keto, bit of not drinking beer, that should work for the fatness. That's a lead in because it is kinda relevant.

    I also should mention that I feel like I am back to a very base fitness level, like I have been training for a couple of months, but no longer, after the coma mid last year, so I am nowhere near where I was prior to that.

    Essentially I have been trying to put size on the upper body, bit of aesthetic work, nahmean? I find that when I reach a certain size on my chest and shoulders I can get away with a bit of a stomach. So I'm doing all the preening exercises, and of course I am bicep curling like a ************. That's all good, I want to get size up top before the fat loss really starts taking effect because the fat leaves there first, leaving me with strong, but smaller upper body, and a protruding stomach. So if I build the upper body, this effect will be minimised in theory.

    Doing a higher volume, lower weight program for that, like 4x10-5x10, depending on weights (if 5x10 is easy, put more weight on). Following a method I learnt years ago that worked for size, so I'm sticking to it.

    The thing is, I have the fat stomach and fat thighs. So a fat mid section. I don't need size here. But I do need strength. So, my question is, with the above in mind, is mixing and matching a strength program (5x5, 3x5 squat, dead) with my lower body and a size program with my upper body recommended? And if not, why not?


    Sounds like diet is the biggest issue.

  3. #3
    scipio's Avatar
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    I'm currently doing what is predominantly a strength based program (Wendlers 531) but it does give you a number of options around adding volume sets rather than just the classic 5x5, 3x5 for strength.

    I'm mainly interested in strength but (as I'm vain) want bigger arms/shoulders so I'm adding more volume work for my upper body and just doing classic(ish) strength for lower body.

    I'm not going nuts on legs largely as my knees are damaged and my previous workouts of squatting 2-3 times per week killed them.

    I like 531 but it is worth pointing out it is a long term program and not something you just run for 3 months.

    Personally I would look at a strength based program for lower body but more volume for upper body (not to say you may not want to do OH press, bench press etc but add more volume). You could add some cardio - HIIT maybe? I cycle but then it's my journey to work. You could do more strength for lower body and more volume for upper body - no reason why that couldn't work.

    As Chen said - look at your diet....

  4. #4
    battlefields's Avatar
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    Sooooooooo...

    Basically you're (both) saying that the course I am on is okay. Eat better, of course, and it is fine to go volume up top for vanity, strength program down low.

    Thanks guys!
    GET A RED BELT OR DIE TRYIN'.
    Quote Originally Posted by Devil View Post
    I think Battlefields and I had a spirited discussion once about who was the biggest narcissist. We both wanted the title but at the end of the day I had to concede defeat. Can't win 'em all.
    Quote Originally Posted by BackFistMonkey View Post
    I <3 Battlefields...

  5. #5
    scipio's Avatar
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    Pretty much so, I'm combining the two at the moment (done both strength and volume in the past).

    Look up Wendlers 531 on Tnation, you may not want to do the program (although I like it) but lot of discussion around combining strength vs volume

  6. #6
    ChenPengFi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by battlefields View Post
    Sooooooooo...

    Basically you're (both) saying that the course I am on is okay. Eat better, of course, and it is fine to go volume up top for vanity, strength program down low.

    Thanks guys!


    Not exactly even if that's a fine takeaway, I just have amazing powers of discernment.


    The thing is, I have the fat stomach and fat thighs. So a fat mid section. I don't need size here.

  7. #7
    TheMightyMcClaw's Avatar
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    So, I've been on a similar split - doing german volumetric training (low weight 10x10's) for my bench and overhead press and a strength-oriented progressive 5x5 for my deadlift and squat. The logic's basically the same as yours - I care about how my upper body looks, but I care about what my lower body can do. And while I have gotten a bit better results with the high-volume low-load on the bench than I did with 3x10's, the main upside is that human shoulders are pieces of garbage and I'm less likely to injure mine if I'm not pushing a lot of weight.
    My only worry is that it kinda sounds like you're trying to cut and bulk at the same time, which according to my sources, has worked approximately Never for No One. Trying to lose the gut while broadening your shoulders is, at best, not going to work very well. You're going to need a caloric surplus to build muscle, and you're going to need a caloric deficit to cut the fat.
    Frankly, it sounds like the fat is by far your bigger problem. The aesthetics of having wide shoulders is less about how actually big around you are and more about your V-taper and chest-waist ratio. A guy with a 30" waist and a 40" chest is going to look much more aesthetically pleasing than a guy with a 42" chest and a 42" waist.
    The fool thinks himself immortal,
    If he hold back from battle;
    But old age will grant him no truce,
    Even if spears spare him.

  8. #8
    battlefields's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devil View Post
    You and I once had an argument about which of us was the most narcissistic person here. We were both vying for the top spot. At the end of the day, I had to concede that you were the most narcissistic. I had to settle for 2nd place.

    I now claim the crown. Sorry, bro. You just canít be at the pinnacle of narcissism when youíre a disgusting fat body. Iím sure youíll still try hard. And youíll likely still be far more narcissistic than most. But youíre just not on my level anymore.

    How could you be? Iím fucking pretty, dude. And successful. My office at work is a constant parade of well educated MILFs with tight asses who want to blow me and tell their friends about it.

    Youíre second place now. The first loser.
    You've already conceded and I am too narcissistic to do so. You can claim it, but it is my narcissism that drives me to write posts like this, that has me focussed on my aesthetic, that does not care if anyone thinks I am "disgusting". I have a gigantic penis and while you're being admired by MILFs, I'm still able to attract women whose bodies haven't been ravaged by time and kids. Sorry, bro, you're just not narcissistic enough.

    McClaw, I'll look into this German volumetric training. And yeah, I'm aware of the issues around bulk and calories, testing a few things at the moment.
    GET A RED BELT OR DIE TRYIN'.
    Quote Originally Posted by Devil View Post
    I think Battlefields and I had a spirited discussion once about who was the biggest narcissist. We both wanted the title but at the end of the day I had to concede defeat. Can't win 'em all.
    Quote Originally Posted by BackFistMonkey View Post
    I <3 Battlefields...

  9. #9
    scipio's Avatar
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    Claw/Battlefields, this thread has become a bit of a wasteland as of late - if you want to post anything on how you getting on with Germanic Volume Training or post links - be interested. Always looking to investigate new lifting regimes.

  10. #10
    TheMightyMcClaw's Avatar
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    Here's an article on the german high volume training:
    https://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/luis13.htm
    I'm very much a "hardgainer," and chest size in particular has always been tough for me to put on. I've put on two inches on my chest over the past year, which isn't terribly spectacular, but it's better than anything else I've done. It's also taking my max bench from an adorable 145 to a respectable 205.
    The biggest upside I've found is that I get injured less. Human shoulders - and mine in particular - are garbage, and doing any sort of high-weight upper body exercise has given me tons of little injuries through the years. Nothing requiring medical attention, just the sort of thing that makes you take a few days off.
    And of course, that said, I currently have tennis elbow from going too hard a while back. Which has been hella frustrating.

    The biggest downside is that it takes forever. Fortunately, I'm semi-retired and have a home gym, so spending an hour on a single exercise is fine by me. But if you only have time to lift for 45 minutes three times a week, the high volume stuff might be logistically tough.
    The fool thinks himself immortal,
    If he hold back from battle;
    But old age will grant him no truce,
    Even if spears spare him.

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