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  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wounded Ronin View Post
    Thanks very much for your detailed and heartfelt reply.
    The other thing that often doesn't get discussed is the idea that not everyone is able to control their behavior. This goes directly against the conservative idea of personal accountability. However, if someone has active addiction, or if someone has certain mental health conditions, they may not be able to fully control their behavior all the time. So any policy based on the idea that all people can fully control their behavior is based on an assumption which may be incorrect.
    I would add that even perfectly sane people generally struggle to control their behavior. Human psychology is weird.

  2. #12
    DCS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guird View Post
    I would add that even perfectly sane people generally struggle to control their behavior. Human psychology is weird.
    And free will is an illusion.

  3. #13
    Wounded Ronin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DCS View Post
    And free will is an illusion.
    That was also going to be in my next response. I'm not sure if free will absolutely doesn't exist, or if it exists some of the time, but I do believe that it might not exist in the presence of distressing factors such as unmet physiological need.

    I feel like culturally in the US there is so much veneration for the idea of free will and the idea that there is no fate but what we make for ourselves. But this could be seen as the illusion of the ego.

    Who is John Galt? Don't tell him, because he'll get really offended, but just another cog in the machine whose thoughts and actions were largely moulded from his circumstances.

    Time for one of my favorite quotes:

    No doubt the most profound adaptation required of Zen in the West revolves around the Western notion of the self as an autonomous individual. This assumption is so basic to our way of thinking as to determine our entire worldview. But it is qualitatively different from the traditional Asian conception of self, in which a person is defined within a nexus of social relations, and dependent on a contextual web consisting of other persons as well as place, time, and history.
    Kapleau, Roshi P.. The Three Pillars of Zen. Knopf Doubleday Publishing Group. Kindle Edition. (Afterward by Bohdin Kjolhede.)
    Lone Wolf McQuade Final Fight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmrDe_mYUXg

  4. #14

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    This goes back to the roots of Western thought in Greek philosophy.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0N_RO-jL-90

    I think this video illustrates it well.
    :D

  5. #15
    BKR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kravbizarre View Post
    Tax situations worldwide will worsen when more **** becomes automated (for example driverless buses), more unemployment. Somone has to pick up the slack.

    Acertempest you are just above the poverty line in australia. The average wage is i think 70k here. Anything above i think 80k puts you on a high tax bracket where 40c per dollar you make goes to the man. In a country where toothpaste is $6 and local made beer is $55+ for a slab (24 bottles) and average home in melbourne costs 900k **** is getting ridiculous. Work slowed down so i went from full time to part time and pretty make the same you Ace. Ive decided for career change to make more cash.

    There was an idea to drug test people living in welfare housing/people on welfare here but it was met with alot of opposition. Cost being one but the biggest one was something about human rights or some ****.
    Well, apparently SOME folks can be wealthy Down Under. I wonder if they are paying their fair $AUS .40 on the dollar ?

    Doing a 10-panel on everybody who gets benefits would be quite costly and very difficult to put into practice. Unless they are doing twice a week testing, forget about every really catching anybody with half a brain who is using.

    BTW, no, #1 is not my wife...
    https://www.forbes.com/australia-bil...t/#tab:overall
    Falling for Judo since 1980

    "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

    "The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

    "Banning BKR is like kicking a Quokka. It's foolishness of the first order." - Raycetpfl

  6. #16
    BKR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DCS View Post
    And free will is an illusion.
    Hell, everything is an illusion...
    Falling for Judo since 1980

    "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

    "The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

    "Banning BKR is like kicking a Quokka. It's foolishness of the first order." - Raycetpfl

  7. #17
    cualltaigh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    I wonder if they are paying their fair $AUS .40 on the dollar?
    The top rate rate is 47.5% for earnings over $180k per year. And no, you don’t get to be on that list for being silly enough to pay the full rate.
    Dum spiro, spero.
    Tada gan iarracht.

  8. #18
    BackFistMonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    Well, apparently SOME folks can be wealthy Down Under. I wonder if they are paying their fair $AUS .40 on the dollar ?

    Doing a 10-panel on everybody who gets benefits would be quite costly and very difficult to put into practice. Unless they are doing twice a week testing, forget about every really catching anybody with half a brain who is using.

    BTW, no, #1 is not my wife...
    https://www.forbes.com/australia-bil...t/#tab:overall
    Let's not forget this has been tried in the US and less than 3% tested positive (2.6% when the general population has an 8% positive rate according to the Time article. The Think Progress link tracks 7 states and has very interesting stats which are even more damning to the program) and the cost far outweighed any money saved each time it was fully implemented.

    I could go Think Progress or Time... Why not both right?
    http://time.com/3117361/welfare-reci...-drug-testing/

    https://thinkprogress.org/what-7-sta...-c346e0b4305d/
    Last edited by BackFistMonkey; 1/24/2018 2:35pm at . Reason: illiteracy and bumblefuckery
    I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.
    BILL HICKS,
    1961-1994

  9. #19
    BKR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cualltaigh View Post
    The top rate rate is 47.5% for earnings over $180k per year. And no, you dont get to be on that list for being silly enough to pay the full rate.
    Do you have a capital gains type tax as well ? People that wealthy don't usually draw a salary or get paid by the hour, LOL.

    Of course, their net worth includes property, value of stocks owned, etc.
    Falling for Judo since 1980

    "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

    "The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

    "Banning BKR is like kicking a Quokka. It's foolishness of the first order." - Raycetpfl

  10. #20
    DCS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BackFistMonkey View Post
    Let's not forget this has been tried in the US and less than 3% tested positive
    I'd bet other groups of people who are living on taxpayer money have higher percentage of drug users.

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