Heavyweight V Heavyweight Takedowns/Throws/Sweeps

**BKR** · 8/07/2017 11:16am,

Originally Posted by Raycetpfl

Imho Collar drags > shots in the gi.

This sort of thing can be very effective. You can use the gi to set up the angles and action reaction to get the penetration. It's a lot easier than doing normal Judo throws.

The brown belt I try to train (BJJ) with is very effective (in gi) at setting this stuff up. In the three matches I watched (on video) from the tournament this weekend, that's what he did.

**BKR** · 8/07/2017 11:26am,

Originally Posted by remington50

I had my first tournament and I performed...not so well. I found the first thing I need to work on though. And so here I am asking. What are some high reward, low risk ways of getting a fellow heavyweight off their feet? Any recommendations? I am looking for ways to improve my game there.

Ps

Blue belt with no wrestling experience. BJJ/Judo training. So any moves are welcome.

Whatever you do you are going to have to either add training time for take-downs and transitions (which are VERY important), or take time from ground training to drill them.

**remington50** · 8/07/2017 11:34am,

Originally Posted by AcerTempest

Also, I HIGHLY recommend listening to Rayce. He is a very experienced competitor with a good knowledge of both Judo and BJJ as arts. He won't steer you wrong with this stuff.

That being said, some other things to think about.
Whatever take-down you do, you will need to learn what off balance FEELS like. That, IMO, is the number one reason beginners do not get many clean take-downs.
The number 2 reason, is NOT ENOUGH REPS. Seriously, whatever you are doing, do NOT just get shown something once, do it a few times and then start trying to force it through in randori or competition.
Please, for the love of Christ, DO SOME REPS. Cooperative training is FAR more effective at building specific skills than competitive training.

Absolutely. I'm a firm believer. My friend and I went to a completion and he actually took gold in both divisions. His presence on his feet was vastly superior to his opponents. Mainly because of his Kung fu knowledge. That balance was always there.

Thanks for the advice.

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**remington50** · 8/07/2017 11:35am,

Originally Posted by Raycetpfl

Then there is Vieria.....

They call it drop Seio Nage but it's more of a uke otoshi with a same side morote grip.

I like the throws where I use my own body weight falling to make the throw.

I use everything he does here.

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Thanks man. I got some new videos for my playlist :)

I will be working on these as soon as I am in class.

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**Raycetpfl** · 8/07/2017 11:50am,

Originally Posted by BKR

Whatever you do you are going to have to either add training time for take-downs and transitions (which are VERY important), or take time from ground training to drill them.

Indeed.
This is a magnificently vast field of study. Take downs are hard and not rewarded very well in bjj.
If you want to Win bjj matches I wouldn't even say that they are absolutely needed. If you have a sick guard and a good guard pull you can be a world champ.
If you want to be a complete martial artist and train for mma,self-defense and just for self satisfaction than I think it is a great endeavor to take on.

**WFMurphyPhD** · 8/07/2017 12:28pm,

Yamashita is an excellent heavy weight Judoka, and he has written some good books, and produced some free clinics that are available on the Tube.
Also, there are many excellent wrestling resources specifically for heavy weight wrestlers distributed by Championship Videos,
also, Bob Anderson's series may be of interest to you.
I would also add that hand fighting benefits Judoka and Wrestlers alike, and applies to all weight class situations.

**BKR** · 8/07/2017 12:29pm,

Originally Posted by Raycetpfl

Indeed.
This is a magnificently vast field of study. Take downs are hard and not rewarded very well in bjj.
If you want to Win bjj matches I wouldn't even say that they are absolutely needed. If you have a sick guard and a good guard pull you can be a world champ.
If you want to be a complete martial artist and train for mma,self-defense and just for self satisfaction than I think it is a great endeavor to take on.

Yeah, and you don't have to be good at 40 throws (as in Judo) to be set up for mma, self defense, or BJJ comps.

Getting on top and staying on top is a good strategy regardless in most situations.

**Raycetpfl** · 8/07/2017 2:21pm,

Originally Posted by WFMurphyPhD

.
I would also add that hand fighting benefits Judoka and Wrestlers alike, and applies to all weight class situations.

This is the key in my opinion. Grip fight for proper position. If I execute a technique from the proper position i will likely successfully complete it or they will have to move into an already known space to block the technique... which will setup my next technique and so on.

How to throw made easy.

Step 1. Secure grips and position

Step 2. Have momentum built into throw.
I.e. Have them yanked forward/pushed back, stepping where they should for the takedown.

Step 3. Throw

Ronda Rousey said one time,"If it's smooth ,it's Judo. If you force it, it's wrestling."

I don't agree with that in the sense that wrestling is just brut force but I do believe that there is something to being loose and feeling the momentum of the situation and going with it in the proper direction.

Use your finesse during sparring and build your muscles during your exercise.

Watch Ben Askren wrestling and Ronda doing Judo. They win by choosing the right techniques during the proper positioning and have the proper kazushi/momentum built.

**BKR** · 8/07/2017 5:07pm,

Originally Posted by Raycetpfl

This is the key in my opinion. Grip fight for proper position. If I execute a technique from the proper position i will likely successfully complete it or they will have to move into an already known space to block the technique... which will setup my next technique and so on.

How to throw made easy.

Step 1. Secure grips and position

Step 2. Have momentum built into throw.
I.e. Have them yanked forward/pushed back, stepping where they should for the takedown.

Step 3. Throw

Ronda Rousey said one time,"If it's smooth ,it's Judo. If you force it, it's wrestling."

I don't agree with that in the sense that wrestling is just brut force but I do believe that there is something to being loose and feeling the momentum of the situation and going with it in the proper direction.

Use your finesse during sparring and build your muscles during your exercise.

Watch Ben Askren wrestling and Ronda doing Judo. They win by choosing the right techniques during the proper positioning and have the proper kazushi/momentum built.

If you are working on Judo rank so you can compete in a high enough division to be able to use subs, at least learn the correct romaji... KUZUSHI.

Yeah, people at BJJ ask me to teach them a takedown, and I start with grip and posture. I guess it's my way of not teaching Judo...some of them seem to get it, though.

It takes quite a bit of time and drilling, and practice time is limited.

When all your opponent has to do is pull guard, half guard, or into DLR (really common out here according to my coach), finessing take-downs takes a bit of a back seat. It's almost as if you have to learn the ground stuff and then go back to takedowns.

Similarly, if you spend most of your time on the ground learning Judo, you go to compete and get out-gripped and thrown, and probably lose.

**BKR** · 8/07/2017 6:32pm,

Adding in ashi waza, movement, and gripping really takes a toll on one's training time.

I think in a "normal" (non-elite) BJJ environment, a very few simple flows would probably be sufficient. Those could be built on as a person progresses and personalized to fit/mold with the preferred ground strategy of the student.

Just be glad nobody is trying to be competitive at even moderate level judo comps, that gets exponentially more complex the higher you go. It's still made up of simple building blocks, though.