Page 2 of 28 First 12345612 ... Last
  1. #11

    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Italy
    Posts
    439
    Style
    Judo, Nippon Kempo
    4
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    In the period when Berlusconi was the italian premier, or in the periods when he wasn't the premier but still was the chief of the opposition, the other side (the center left coalition) spent a lot of time speaking bad of Berlusconi, and B. himself was the subject of various investigations, many of wich he dodged by slowing down the process until it exceded the time limitations so that B. was aquitted.

    This had no apparent effect on B. voters.

    In the case of Italy, I have these explanations, that I think apply also to Trump:

    1) A lot of people are very partisan, more than they realize, so they really couldn't bring themselves to vote for "the left", no matter what. (I might fit this description but in reverse).

    2) A lot of people specifically on the right believe that all politicians are corrupt: this is an integral part of the "small government" mantra, which in turn was essential for the right as a way to dismantle the new deal/social democracy regime.
    For this reason, they don't think that corruption in one of their politicians is bad, because they assume the others are the same or worse.

    3) People in the left generally think of corruption as "politician should make just laws, but he is lobbied by evil capitalist and makes a bad law. Corruption!". From this point of view voting the evil capitalist directly into office is just plain stupid.
    People in the right generally have a different idea of corruption, which is: "politician uses state power to suck money from private citiziens, he then uses this money to live life of luxury, and gives some to some undeserving poor to get elected again. Corruption!". From this point of view what Berlusconi and Trump are doing isn't really corruption, from the point of view of the people who vote them.

    4) It's collusion with bad guys when the other side does it, it's realpolitik when your side does it.

    EDIT:

    and also, importantly, it's true that each side has a mudsliding machine, don't assume that there is always something beyond the smoke, sometimes it really is just smoke.
    Last edited by MisterMR; 7/13/2017 12:16pm at .

  2. #12
    BKR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Bonners Ferry, Idaho
    Posts
    16,829
    Style
    Kodokan Judo/BJJ
    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BackFistMonkey View Post
    You guys are about to see some magical **** out in the wilds of real life mediaworld and the interland.

    Just remember "collusion" is not a crime. Treason, witness intimidation, sexual assault, fraud, money laundering, lying on government documents, financial transactions with sanctioned entities, and lying under oath are crimes.
    You left out obstruction of justice...
    Falling for Judo since 1980

    "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

    "The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

    "Banning BKR is like kicking a Quokka. It's foolishness of the first order." - Raycetpfl

  3. #13
    Winning is so much better with sore losers Join us... or die
    1bad65's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Wilco, TX
    Posts
    3,319
    Style
    boxing, gjj
    -1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Wounded Ronin View Post
    Oh, what I meant by that was his release of emails in which he wanted to meet with a "Russian government attorney" in order to get damaging information on HRC.

    http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/11/politi...ics/index.html
    Thanks much.

    She has denied she was an employee of the Russian Gov't, as per that link.

    So far imo, Trump Jr did something stupid, but not illegal.

    Time will tell, but as I said earlier, history shows so far that all the other times they thought they had Trump nailed turned out to be a big "nothing burger".
    A succubus is a Lilin-demon in female form, or supernatural entity in folklore that appears in dreams and takes the form of a woman in order to seduce men, usually through sexual activity. Religious traditions hold that repeated sexual activity with a succubus may result in the deterioration of health or mental state, or even in death.

  4. #14
    Winning is so much better with sore losers Join us... or die
    1bad65's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Wilco, TX
    Posts
    3,319
    Style
    boxing, gjj
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by MisterMR View Post
    4) It's collusion with bad guys when the other side does it, it's realpolitik when your side does it.
    You hit the nail on the head. Who can forget this:



    I'm curious. To those on this thread, was that an example of collusion with Russia?
    A succubus is a Lilin-demon in female form, or supernatural entity in folklore that appears in dreams and takes the form of a woman in order to seduce men, usually through sexual activity. Religious traditions hold that repeated sexual activity with a succubus may result in the deterioration of health or mental state, or even in death.

  5. #15
    BKR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Bonners Ferry, Idaho
    Posts
    16,829
    Style
    Kodokan Judo/BJJ
    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by 1bad65 View Post
    Thanks much.

    She has denied she was an employee of the Russian Gov't, as per that link.

    So far imo, Trump Jr did something stupid, but not illegal.

    Time will tell, but as I said earlier, history shows so far that all the other times they thought they had Trump nailed turned out to be a big "nothing burger".
    IMO, it's all about stopping Trump and the Republicans from getting anything constructive done.

    However, those two don't need a lot of help to fail...

    Think of it as attrition trolling on all fronts.

    First we had the pornification of the world, now it trollification...
    Falling for Judo since 1980

    "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

    "The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

    "Banning BKR is like kicking a Quokka. It's foolishness of the first order." - Raycetpfl

  6. #16
    DCS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    6,556
    Style
    Jits
    -1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Wounded Ronin View Post
    Does anyone have any commentary or explanation? A narrative to make sense of it all?
    People have the government they deserve.

  7. #17
    Winning is so much better with sore losers Join us... or die
    1bad65's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Wilco, TX
    Posts
    3,319
    Style
    boxing, gjj
    -1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    IMO, it's all about stopping Trump and the Republicans from getting anything constructive done.
    I think that's likely correct.

    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    However, those two don't need a lot of help to fail...
    While his agenda (namely taxes and the repeal of Obamacare) seems to be stalled, he did get Neil Gorsuch seated on the SC.

    In my view, if he accomplishes literally nothing else outside of SC appointments during his time in office, that alone is huge. That sets up a rational, constitutionalist SC for decades after he's long gone.

    Thank God we didn't get Hillary in there, and a few more 40-something Ginsburg types on the Court.

    Legislating from the bench is a huge problem we face, imo. This at least gives better odds that's not going to happen on the SC for a long time.
    A succubus is a Lilin-demon in female form, or supernatural entity in folklore that appears in dreams and takes the form of a woman in order to seduce men, usually through sexual activity. Religious traditions hold that repeated sexual activity with a succubus may result in the deterioration of health or mental state, or even in death.

  8. #18
    BKR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Bonners Ferry, Idaho
    Posts
    16,829
    Style
    Kodokan Judo/BJJ
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DCS View Post
    People have the government they deserve.
    Falling for Judo since 1980

    "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

    "The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

    "Banning BKR is like kicking a Quokka. It's foolishness of the first order." - Raycetpfl

  9. #19
    It is Fake's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    35,445
    Style
    xingyi
    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Your political naivete never ceases to amaze me. Why would people who like Trump jump on the "string him up and hang em high" bandwagon? First off it was his son. Second off, Hillary's emails and the revelation, not really, the investigation was poor will offset anything except, showing smart Americans the two party system is full of collusion and alleged criminal acts which are only pointed out when your side loses.

    Go look at BKR's words and realize OBAMA SUPPORTERS said the EXACT SAME THING during his eight years in office.

  10. #20
    BKR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Bonners Ferry, Idaho
    Posts
    16,829
    Style
    Kodokan Judo/BJJ
    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by 1bad65 View Post
    I think that's likely correct.



    While his agenda (namely taxes and the repeal of Obamacare) seems to be stalled, he did get Neil Gorsuch seated on the SC.

    In my view, if he accomplishes literally nothing else outside of SC appointments during his time in office, that alone is huge. That sets up a rational, constitutionalist SC for decades after he's long gone.

    Thank God we didn't get Hillary in there, and a few more 40-something Ginsburg types on the Court.

    Legislating from the bench is a huge problem we face, imo. This at least gives better odds that's not going to happen on the SC for a long time.
    I've stated before the best thing about having Trump as President (and a Republican majority) is federal court appointments. It's the primary reason I voted for Trump as lesser of several evils.
    Falling for Judo since 1980

    "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

    "The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

    "Banning BKR is like kicking a Quokka. It's foolishness of the first order." - Raycetpfl

Page 2 of 28 First 12345612 ... Last

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Log in

Log in