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  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by Permalost View Post
    If I were a contract killer, aside from not leaving the target alive, I wouldn't do it in a public area at all, and the body would be disappeared as well. "Sanitation" would involve more than picking up a few casings- there would be cleaning supplies and tarps and stuff.
    Sung to the tune of "If I Were A Rich Man" ?
    Falling for Judo since 1980

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  2. #152
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    Here is one of the latest outreaches by Trump supporters posted on reddit's the_donald but taken from pol on 4chan.
    I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.
    BILL HICKS,
    1961-1994

    Quote Originally Posted by Jean Paula-Satire
    Never believe that the GOP and fellow bigots are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The bigots and Republicans have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past and that besides, they have already won

  3. #153

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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMcHblG9_j8

    Here is the audio of Seymour Hersh. Hersh is, and was a legendary investigative journalist, but conspiracy minded and not infallible. He is claiming a source looked at the FBI report on their search of Seth Rich's computer. It should be noted that the MPD and FBI are denying the FBI had access to Rich's computer.

    The part about the narrative that strikes me as being immediately wrong is Seth Rich, asking Wikileaks for money. That he was doing this to make a buck. Unless you want to claim he's not motivated by idealism and Bernie love, and actually was an opportunist.

    If anyone sees any articles on the profiling project's filmed re-enactment, please post the links here. I'm interested to see what has appeared in the media.

  4. #154

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    A Forensic Moment:

    Most people who will be watching the Profiling Project's eventual video product will not know the difference between a crime scene reconstruction and a crime scene re-enactment. The profiling project is doing the latter. Let me quote Henry C Lee Ph.D aka Dr. Lee on this subject.

    "Crime scene reconstruction is the process of determining or eliminating the events and actions that occurred at the crime scene through analysis of the crime scene pattern, the location and position of the physical evidence. Reconstruction not only involves scientific scene analysis, interpretation of the scene pattern evidence and laboratory examination of physical evidence, but it also involves systematic study of related information and the logical formulation of a theory."

    Then Lee writes:

    "It should be understood that reconstruction is different from 're-enactment', 're-creation' or 'criminal profiling'. Re-enactment in general refers to having the victim, suspect, witness or other individual re-enact the event that produced the crime scene or the physical evidence based on their knowledge of the crime. . . Each of these types of analysis may be helpful for certain aspects of a criminal investigation. However these types of analysis are rarely useful in the solution of a crime." Henry C. Lee, Timothy Palmbach, Marilyn Miller, Henry Lee's Crime Scene Handbook (Academic Press, San Deigo, 2001), p. 271.

    I've looked at crime scene reconstruction reports, sometimes they use well over 100 separate pieces of physical evidence. Blood Splatter, shell casings, etc. No, since the Profiling Project and Jack Berkman don't have any of the necessary crime scene or forensic reports they are doing a crime scene re-enactment. However they do not have the victim's assistance. (Seth is dead). They don't have the suspect's help, they are still in the wind. They don't even have the help of a witness to this crime. The most they may have is someone who saw Seth's body on the ground after he died, and none of the action beforehand.

    So its a defective re-enactment. They don't have the help of any observer or participant who would provide the necessary information to make this a credible exercise.

    I predict this film product will be defective upon delivery.

  5. #155

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    http://www.debunkingrodwheelersclaims.com/

    I'm saving this link here, which is a hit job on Rod Wheeler. It was probably funded by Ed Butowsky who funded his initial investigation and later mentioned it on CNN while being interviewed by Chris Cuomo.

    For Rod Wheeler's complaint read here.

    http://www.schwimmerlegal.com/2017/0...en-murder.html

  6. #156

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    Quote Originally Posted by BackFistMonkey View Post
    Here is one of the latest outreaches by Trump supporters posted on reddit's the_donald but taken from pol on 4chan.
    It's cute to see how 4chan tries to stay relevant by pretending to be a real, trustworthy source.

    Keep in mind these are the same people who claim they are behind every lie and fact reported.

    If something's true, only they know about it, and if something's fake news, they created it.

    Meanwhile, that whole post is a weasel worded false narrative like everything else that comes out of any "chan". You know, it's not THAT hard to actually go read what Hersch said for yourself without needing it spoon fed to you by some Anonymous dildo. Hersch's actual words are FAR less speculative or exciting.

    To quote Hersch directly, he believes the conspiracy talk is "gossip" and that the murder was a botched robbery as reported by the MPD.

  7. #157

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Browning View Post
    A Forensic Moment:

    Most people who will be watching the Profiling Project's eventual video product will not know the difference between a crime scene reconstruction and a crime scene re-enactment. The profiling project is doing the latter.
    Also known as...acting.

    The PP re-enactment is about as historically grounded as Team America: World Police, and about as trustworthy as 4chan.


  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pship Destroyer View Post
    It's cute to see how 4chan tries to stay relevant by pretending to be a real, trustworthy source.

    Keep in mind these are the same people who claim they are behind every lie and fact reported.

    If something's true, only they know about it, and if something's fake news, they created it.

    Meanwhile, that whole post is a weasel worded false narrative like everything else that comes out of any "chan". You know, it's not THAT hard to actually go read what Hersch said for yourself without needing it spoon fed to you by some Anonymous dildo. Hersch's actual words are FAR less speculative or exciting.

    To quote Hersch directly, he believes the conspiracy talk is "gossip" and that the murder was a botched robbery as reported by the MPD.
    Please stop bitching about people not posting sources...until...
    Falling for Judo since 1980

    "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

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  9. #159

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    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    Please stop bitching about people not posting sources...until...
    My sources are the court records that exposed Hersch's comments to the public.

    Butowsky lays out a different mission than aiding the Rich family. Butowsky says he became convinced the FBI had a report concluding that Seth Rich's laptop showed he had had contacts with WikiLeaks after speaking to the legendary reporter Seymour Hersh, who was also investigating Rich's death. According to the transcripts in the lawsuit, Butowsky said Hersh had an FBI source who confirmed the report.
    In an interview this week, Hersh sounded unconvinced.
    "I hear gossip," Hersh told NPR on Monday. "[Butowsky] took two and two and made forty-five out of it."
    http://archive.is/aakY9

    https://www.scribd.com/document/355266070/Wheeler-Filed-Complaint



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    I downloaded Rod Wheeler's complaint. It can be found here. https://www.scribd.com/document/3552...iled-Complaint

    It's very lengthy at 33 pages but at it's heart, there is a defamation claim against Twenty First Century Fox Inc, Fox News Network, LLC, Malia Zimmerman and Ed Butowsky. The second cause of action is for racial discrimination against both the Fox corporate defendants. under 42 U.S.C. Section 1981.

    I was struck at how much not strictly relevant material was included in the 33 page complaint. It looked like Rod's attorneys wanted to include as many potentially salacious details as possible, partly so they would get reported by the media, and partly because it would give them more leeway when conducting discovery. I decided that I am not going to be able to summarize the whole complaint so I'll pick and choose based on what I think is most relevant to the murder investigation. Very quickly it becomes apparent that this complaint centers around the triangular relationship between Butowsky, Wheeler and Zimmerman. I don't have much faith in Wheeler's credibility, though he does repeatedly refer to text messages and recorded phone calls in his complaint and I'm sure these exist in some form, even if much context is removed. But I'm pretty skeptical and don't want the reader to think I'm endorsing either Butowsky or Wheeler's version of events.

    The complaint starts with a preliminary statement which is an excuse to allege on pages 1 and 2 of the complaint that Ed Butowsky had sent Wheeler a text which read. "Not to add any more pressure but the president just read the article [about Seth Rich's murder and the DNC leak] He wants the article out immediately. It's now all up to you. But don't feel the Pressure." [Dated May 14, 2017] "The motivation behind the article: establish that Seth Rich provided WikiLeaks with the DNC emails to shift the blame from Russia and help put to bed speculation that President Trump colluded with Russia in an attempt to influence the outcome of the Presidential election. Incredibly according to Butowsky, the President reviewed an article written by a Fox News Journalist prior to publication and sought to get the article published "immediately" (pp 1-2)

    Wheeler claims that he was defamed when Zimmerman, the Fox News Reporter fabricated two quotes and attributed them to him.

    "My investigation up to this point shows there was some degree of email exchange between Seth Rich and Wikileaks, said Wheeler." and "My investigation shows someone within the DC government, Democratic National Committee or Clinton team is blocking the murder investigation from going forward." Wheeler said "that is unfortunate, Seth Rich's murder is unsolved as a result of that." Wheeler in his lawsuit claims he did not make these statements. (p. 2.)

    Back in February of 2017, Wheeler claims, Butowsky introduced himself to Mr. Wheeler and offered to pay for an investigation. Butowsky is "a frequent contributor for Fox News and Fox Business Channel, an outspoken supporter of Donald Trump and opponent of Hillary Clinton, and a friend to former Press Secretary Sean Spicer and Chief Strategist Steve Bannon" (p. 3., and p. 11)

    Wheeler now says Butowsky had the political agenda of having Wheeler confirm that "(i) Seth Rich was responsible for the leak of DNC emails to Wikileaks; and (ii) Seth Rich was murdered by a Democratic operative because he leaked the emails to Wikileaks." (p. 3) Wheeler says the goal was to shift the blame for the hacks from the Russians to Seth Rich so as to "undermine reports of collusion between Russia and the Trump Administration." (p. 3.)

    Prior to the article being published by Fox, Butowsky and Wheeler had met with Shawn Spicer "and provided him with a copy of Mr. Wheeler's investigative notes. Mr. Spicer asked to be kept abreast of developments and upon information and belief Butowsky did keep Mr. Spicer abreast of developments." (p. 4)

    After the article was published, that Wheeler claims was defamatory, Wheeler says he called Butowsky and demanded an explaination for the false quotes in Zimmerman's article. Wheeler claims Butowsky stated "that the quotes were included because that is the way the President wanted the article".

    At this point, I, Samuel Browning want to say that I do not know whether Butowsky was actually communicating with President Trump through Shawn Spicer or he was free lancing and doing what he thought would help of please Trump. Either is possible, and Butowsky comes across as a loose cannon.

    Butowsky is a news promoter, and played an active role in trying to promote this story within Fox News, lobbying Steve Doocy, Gavin Hadden, Ainsley Earhardt and Brian Kilmeade to contact him if they had any questions about Zimmerman's just to be published story. (which was retracted after publication) Wheeler claims he has an email in which Butowsky writes "I'm actually the one who's been putting this together but as you know I keep my name out of things because I have no credibility. One of the big conclusions we need to draw from this is that the Russians did not hack our computer systems and steal emails and there was no collusion like Trump with the Russians." (p. 5.)

    Butowsky and Zimmerman then sent text messages to Wheeler saying that he needed to stick to the narrative about Russian non-involvement. Zimmerman said "Reread the story we sent to you last night and stick to that script". (p. 5)

    Zimmerman's article was published May 16, 2017. As late as May 11, 2017 Wheeler claims, a draft of Zimmerman's story did not include the now disputed quotes. (p. 6.) Wheeler insists that Zimmerman later admitted that "parts of the story regarding the emails and the connection to Wikileaks had not, in fact, come from Mr. Wheeler." (p. 6.) The story itself was retracted on May 23, 2017 by Fox/ (p. 7.)

    Starting on page 12 of the complaint, in the third section there is a mini history of the Seth Rich story with various internet links to news stories. I won't recount this story here.

    The complaint only becomes interesting on page 14 when we first learn how Butowsky met Wheeler. On February 23, 2017 Wheeler received a lengthy text message. The text pointed out that they had mutual friends at fox news including Adam Housley, that Butowsky had watched Wheeler's work for years on TV, and Butowsky needed help conducting an investigation. Butowsky also did some bragging: "Behind the scenes I do a lot of work (unpaid) helping to uncover certain stories, my buggest work was revealing most of what we know today about Benghazi." (p. 14.) At this point this writer thinks Butowsky is being extremely self serving and taking credit for the work done by multiple congressional committees.

    In a phone call Butowsky told Wheeler that "the Rich family was looking to engage an investigator (Mr. Wheeler) and that Butowsky had agreed to foot the bill." (p. 14)

    Wheeler said that Butowsky had previously talked to Seymour Hersh about Seth Rich, and that Hersh had claimed a source had read the FBI forensic report regarding Seth's laptop. I've linked to Hersh's comments elsewhere on the thread but "according to the supposed FBI report, the Washington D.C. field office was able to get into the computer and found in "late spring early summer [2016] [ Seth Rich] [made] contact with Wikileaks." "The found what he had done, He had submitted a series of documents of emails. Some juicy emails from the DNC/" Mr Hersh told Butowsky that Seth Rich "offered a sample, an extensive sample, you know, I'm sure dozens of emails, and said I want money." (pp. 15-16) However according to Wheeler Hersh told Butowsky that the information was not "necessarily true, and that even if true, did not preclude the possibility of that the Russians also hacked the DNC."

    [end of part one]

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