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  1. #51
    BKR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pship Destroyer View Post
    They've gained a huge online following, which allows them to surpass even imprisonment. Not all of it is overtly obvious...in fact they love to hide it behind everyday Americana (ie. frogs).



    Hate speech in the way he used it is not protected. He's equating hate speech with rally violence, which is the dividing line between speech and criminial activity (and it really doesn't matter who does it, Alt Right or Antifa, hate speech really means showing up, screaming hateful ****, and attacking other people, which is what happened at the last rallies). I doubt he's ignorant of the 1st amendment, and the courts have ruled hate speech is not "protected" as in there are no consequences in every case.

    It was not public state-owned Oregon land, it was federal land, so he tried to use a federal technicality to stop the rally.

    Vis a vis, saying you hate Muslims is protected in America in almost every form. BUT walking into a rally or train or mosque saying hateful **** about Muslims and killing people gets classified as a hate crime. Walking in with a baseball bat and beating on people is not "protected speech".

    But, you'll find a lot of the organizers on both sides suggesting violent action is protected expression. That, I think we can both agree, is bollocks.



    Like every politician ever. LOL. I don't defend him per se, but I don't think he's a big part of some "free speech" problem facing America.
    Bollocks, lol, agreed on that.

    Buy protected speech I mean just that speech not physical violence against people. That's different then artistic expression like Donald Trump's fake severed head.

    Physical violence against people other than in self-defense is pretty much illegal. Definitely not free speech.

    Directing racial or religious-based insults towards a person without physical violence or threat of gets into a bit of a grey area that is related to assault rather than actual battery on a person.

    It could be something as simple as disturbing the peace if you're doing it on a crowded bus.

    I read somewhere last week is supposedly witness account of the killings on the bus and what led up to them. However I was skimming and don't remember the source. It will be interesting two hear about the results of a preliminary hearing once he is bound over into whatever the equivalent of felony court is in Oregon.
    Falling for Judo since 1980

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  2. #52
    BKR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghost55 View Post
    Antifa was mostly busy selling an ice cream cart, and at least some of the Antifa that got arrested turned out to be right-wing nut jobs trying to incite ****. All things considered, I'm pretty happy with the outcome
    Please post some sort of legitimate source for your information that we can check. I did read about some anti fa selling ice cream.
    Falling for Judo since 1980

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  3. #53
    BKR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BackFistMonkey View Post
    Geeeeeeeee. Why would anyone actually work against their own interests just to give "the other side" visuals and sound bites in a fucking media war? Antifa aren't Anarcho-Punk-Rockers or libertarians or the Right trying to tear down a system. They are anti-fascists.

    Anyone acting like an Anarchist is a fucking anarchist no matter what color hat they happen to be wearing or banner they are flying. I don't think most of you realize exactly how organize certain Right Wing groups actually are and how they actively try to incite the opposition and control the conversations and how negative it really is to democracy.
    Well oh marketing Guru monkey please explain to me at least but some sources to back up what you're saying. I'm trying to educate I myself in these matters and have an open mind generally speaking.
    Falling for Judo since 1980

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  4. #54
    BKR's Avatar
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    I'm really skeptical of the anti-fascists being the victims and all of this stuff which is where some of what is posted here seems to be leading.

    At this point to me the anti-fascist seem quite a bit just as fascist as the fascists they are supposedly fighting against.
    Falling for Judo since 1980

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    "The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

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  5. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    Physical violence against people other than in self-defense is pretty much illegal. Definitely not free speech.
    This is the core problem. There ARE groups out there claiming they will fight "for free speech" against "communists" and "antifa"....by holding rallies and hoping they'll show up.

    That creates a big security problem for city mayors. Without state or federal help, they don't have many choice but to mobilize huge numbers of cops.

    I have a problem with putting all these cops in harms way for any kind of political bullshit, I don't care what's on your bullhorn. Go home. Read. Vote.

    Only morons to go pick political fist fights in the town commons. That **** gets people killed.
    Last edited by Pship Destroyer; 6/06/2017 12:28am at .

  6. #56

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    Kyle Chapman....let 's talk about this guy. One of the Portland rally organizers (and the guy arrested for assault in the video below) will get people killed.

    Kyle Chapman, known online as "Based Stickman," held court for admirers who wanted to shake his hand and media who asked him mostly deferential questions.
    "Nobody is surprised when leftists come out and try to paint patriotic Americans as white supremacists," Chapman said. "You've got these irredeemables on the left who still eat that **** up. Everybody else laughs."
    When asked why he held the rally in the wake of a double-slaying that has left the city shaken, Chapman said, "This is the time to come out and talk, to communicate."

    "Why not hold this event? We need to talk about free speech," he told WW. "Why would we not hold this event? Because some left-wing mentally-ill person killed somebody? This is when people need to come out and communicate about our differences. Let's all come out and talk about it. That dude was a mentally ill Jill Stein supporter that vowed to assassinate Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton."
    http://www.wweek.com/news/2017/06/04...y-outnumbered/

    Based Stickman, also known as Alt-Knight, is a nickname given to California resident Kyle Chapman who was arrested at a pro-Trump rally for hitting an Antifa protester over the head with a stick during a clash between Trump supporters and anti-Trump demonstrators in early March
    http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/based-stickman

    Last edited by Pship Destroyer; 6/06/2017 12:31am at .

  7. #57

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    That's just a taste of what's in this report on Kyle Chapman, the "Alt-Knight" of Portland..

    http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documen...tickman-173908

    MAY 8--The latest hero of the alt-right, a California man who has beaten and maced anti-Trump protesters on the streets of Berkeley, is a thrice-convicted felon who has served three separate prison terms, jumped bail, twice violated parole, used cocaine, LSD, and meth, and was described by his own lawyer as having “severe psychological problems,” court records show.

    Kyle Chapman, a 41-year-old rough boy committed to destroying the “neo-Marxist scourge,” was arrested March 4 following a melee at a rally organized by Trump supporters. While marchers purportedly were there in support of free speech, Chapman--who has spent a combined 10 years behind bars--came dressed for a fight.

    Chapman, a Bay Area resident, was one of ten combatants busted, but he alone emerged from the “March on Berkeley” as a fully formed right wing meme. Chapman wore a baseball helmet, shin guards, ski goggles, and a gas mask. He carried pepper spray and swung a large wooden closet rod. Chapman also toted a protective shield, a la Captain America.
    Chapman’s first felony conviction came days before his 18th birthday in November 1993. Chapman and an accomplice pleaded guilty to a pair of felony robbery charges, according to Texas court records.

    Chapman, Houston police charged, pointed a firearm at two victims and demanded money. Though he was only brandishing a pellet gun, Chapman warned, “This is a .44 Magnum. Give me your money or I will shoot you.”

    During a 2009 prison evaluation, Chapman told a psychologist that he had been “booted out” of high school “due to disciplinary problems.” Chapman said he joined the Navy in 1993, but never served due to the robbery arrest. He also told the prison doctor that, as a juvenile, he abused alcohol and used LSD and marijuana. But his "substance of choice," Chapman added, was Scotchgard fabric spray, which he huffed.

    Sentenced to five years in prison, Chapman served a combined 30 months in custody before being paroled in 1996. During his incarceration, Chapman said, he was repeatedly assaulted by fellow inmates.

    Chapman eventually moved to California, where he worked as a bouncer at various San Diego-area strip clubs. During his 2009 psych exam, Chapman said that he stopped drinking while on parole in Texas, but resumed imbibing in California.

    Chapman’s next felony conviction came in June 2001, when he pleaded guilty to grand theft. According to Superior Court records, he stole in excess of $400 worth of merchandise from a Macy’s in San Diego. Chapman was sentenced to four years in prison--three years on the grand theft rap and a one-year “enhancement” due to his prior conviction for robbery.

    Chapman served a total of two-and-a-half years in custody, according to California court and corrections records. He was twice sent back to prison for violating terms of his parole, resulting in an additional five months behind bars.

    After his release from prison, Chapman was under psychiatric care and was prescribed multiple medications for depression and anxiety. When his parole term expired, Chapman later told a psychologist, he “stopped all medication.” But he continued to drink heavily and was abusing the painkiller Vicodin (taking upwards of 30 pills daily). Chapman also acknowledged smoking pot and using cocaine “once in a while.” [The psych report notes that Chapman used methamphetamine as an adult, but it does not specify a time frame.]

    Chapman’s most recent felony conviction came as a result of an undercover operation launched by Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives agents and the San Diego Police Department’s street gang unit.

    With the help of a confidential informant, investigators determined that an owner of a San Diego tattoo shop was illegally selling guns from the business. Agents suspected that some of the weapons ended up in the hands of local Hispanic street gang members.

    On two occasions, Chapman provided the tattoo shop owner with weapons--a shotgun and an assault rifle--that were then immediately resold to the informant. One evening, as Chapman drove from his home to the tattoo shop to deliver the assault rifle, a San Diego Police Department surveillance helicopter followed Chapman's Lexus on the six-mile trip.

    Chapman was named in a July 2008 indictment charging him with two counts of being a felon in possession of a firearm. Chapman was arrested at his San Diego home, which was simultaneously searched by cops and ATF agents. According to a search warrant inventory, investigators seized body armor, a Ruger pistol, two throwing knives, a bag of "suspected marijuana," metal knuckles, two glass pipes, assorted ammo and shotgun shells, clips, and magazines.

    In a plea agreement, Chapman copped to the felony charge related to his possession of the assault weapon.

    While free on $35,000 bond posted by his girlfriend (who is now his wife), Chapman went on the lam before his February 2009 sentencing.
    During his one month as a fugitive, Chapman was “living as a homeless person in river beds,” according to a court filing by his lawyer, who claimed that his client “has severe psychological problems” and suffered from auditory and visual hallucinations and “delusions of persecution.”

    After Chapman surrendered to federal agents, a U.S. District Court judge ordered a psychological evaluation to determine whether the felon was “suffering from a mental disease.” A Bureau of Prisons psychologist subsequently concluded that Chapman was not “substantially impaired by a mental disease or defect” and had not exhibited “any symptoms of serious mental illness” while being held in San Diego’s Metropolitan Correctional Center. Regarding a personality test that purported to show that Chapman was “psychologically disturbed,” Dr. Gordon Zilberman found that Chapman likely was “exaggerating or manufacturing symptoms when completing this test.”

    In June 2009, Chapman was sentenced to 63 months in federal prison to be followed by a three-year probation term. Among the character references sent to the judge by Chapman’s family and friends was a letter from Chapman’s brother Derek. Sent a day before Chapman became a fugitive, the letter described the defendant as a “generally law abiding person.” Jeff Kugel, who met Chapman in 2007, wrote that “Kyle is very knowledgeable about history and the struggles of mankind against central power structures.” Kugel added that, “It is easy to come across as a little paranoid to the uninitiated when broaching this subject.”

    After five years behind bars, Chapman was released from Bureau of Prisons custody in January 2014, at which time his probation sentence began. The terms of his supervised release included periodic drug testing and substance abuse treatment. He was also barred from consuming alcohol, attending gun shows, and possessing body armor, firearms, and ammunition. Chapman was also directed to participate in a mental health treatment program as directed by his probation officer.

    Chapman’s federal supervision ended less than two months before the shield-carrying “Alt-Knight” made his March debut on the Berkeley streets. Court records contain no indication that Chapman’s federal probation was violated at any time.

    Chapman was arrested on multiple felony counts for his alleged activities during the March 4 protest (which he proudly calls the “Battle of Berkeley”). Prosecutors with the Alameda County District Attorney's office are still reviewing police reports and videos in advance of making a final charging decision when it comes to Chapman and his fellow arrestees.

    While Chapman supporters wait to see if the ex-con adds yet another felony charge to his personal docket, they can bide the time in his online store, where $39.99 gets you “The Official Battle for Berkeley Hoodie.” The charcoal garment--a 50/50 cotton blend--is advertised as “As seen on TV, worn by Kyle Chapman,” who always dons the stylish item when battling the hordes laying siege to American ideals. (10 pages)
    Last edited by Pship Destroyer; 6/06/2017 12:41am at .

  8. #58
    Bneterasedmynam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    I'm really skeptical of the anti-fascists being the victims and all of this stuff which is where some of what is posted here seems to be leading.

    At this point to me the anti-fascist seem quite a bit just as fascist as the fascists they are supposedly fighting against.
    I believe Winston Churchill called that one.

  9. #59
    BKR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pship Destroyer View Post
    This is the core problem. There ARE groups out there claiming they will fight "for free speech" against "communists" and "antifa"....by holding rallies and hoping they'll show up.

    That creates a big security problem for city mayors. Without state or federal help, they don't have many choice but to mobilize huge numbers of cops.

    I have a problem with putting all these cops in harms way for any kind of political bullshit, I don't care what's on your bullhorn. Go home. Read. Vote.

    Only morons to go pick political fist fights in the town commons. That **** gets people killed.
    Again, you are leaving out the same attitude posited by some elements on the Left... Did you look at the Rose City Antifa statement I posted earlier, regarding their stance on action and violence, destruction of property?

    I'd rather the cops not have to be involved, however, that's one of their jobs.

    Again, you get marginal people with mental/emotional problems from minor to major doing stupid ****. There is nothing unusual about that at all, but you (and the general public) SEE the ones who get triggered in the "fist fights in the town commons", so it's kinda shocking (maybe not to you particularly).

    I work in the court system, and I see it all the time, and I work in a small, rural, town in a county of less than say, 12,000 people.

    Multnomah County is one of the lower circles of Dante's Inferno compared to what I deal with in that regard.
    Falling for Judo since 1980

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  10. #60
    BKR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pship Destroyer View Post
    Kyle Chapman....let 's talk about this guy. One of the Portland rally organizers (and the guy arrested for assault in the video below) will get people killed.


    http://www.wweek.com/news/2017/06/04...y-outnumbered/


    http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/based-stickman

    Obvious attention whore outing himself as such is obvious (Chapman, not you).

    I've read about him, and others involved as well.

    Read the article you posted above. So, how many people did Stickman whack with his weak-assed stick this time?

    Answer: None that I could tell.

    Who was protesting a long-planned event by calling people "Nazis"....yep, Antifa and others. Would Antifa allow any sort of legal speech by Nazis ? I doubt it, they were being told to get out...

    Who got pepper sprayed by the cops? Oh, those must have been the alt-right masquerading as Antifa...

    Anyway, as stated before, results were good, nobody got killed or maimed as far as I know.
    Falling for Judo since 1980

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