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  1. #61
    Michael Tzadok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by D Dempsey View Post
    I never said it was a well reasoned or historically accurate belief



    It's probably better than the people teaching real KM pretending they know how to fight
    Well one of the two KM guys in Fight Quest, the better one to be honest, was a professional boxer. The KMW guys(if you search it) threw all kinds of shade because they were using gloves and protective gear, you know like striker do in real training.

  2. #62
    Raycetpfl's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by D Dempsey View Post
    This is 100% true. Matt Larsen took a group of guys out to Torrance from Ranger Regiment to train with Rorion and Royce who helped them build out a foundational combatives program for the regiment which later became MACP after the Army adopted it. SOCP was developed by Greg Thompson, himself a Royce blackbelt and Royce to this day has a pretty close relationship with the program and used to do a lot of free seminars for on post.

    To jump on the KM hate it's been my experience that if you do somehow find "Good KM" it's probably not KM in anything but name. I personally know several instructors that are doing combat sambo but calling it KM because KM is a money maker with name recognition amongst the general public and an amazing marketing system.
    Omega teaches combat sambo/CMA/MMA under the Krav banner...... because people are morons or something?

  3. #63
    Ded Moroz's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Raycetpfl View Post
    because people are morons or something?
    That could literally be a direct quote from Omega. I'm surprised he hasn't shown up over here yet

  4. #64

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Tzadok View Post
    I'll answer this for you. It is a combatives system lacking an underlying martial art.
    Right, and correct me if I'm wrong here...but this is because the founder who DID have experience in multiple underlying alive martial arts (including wrestling), didn't make the focus of KM training actually learning all those other arts in an integrated fashion (as in MMA today). The traditional idea of "Sensei touched me on the shoulder.. so I must be a martial artist now" seems to apply here. Once the Krav has you...you have the Krav...smells like traditional bullshit 2.0.

    In other words, there are really just two extremes of what "Krav Maga" means...one is just the basic idea of learning unarmed combat (which means you could study and combine many arts, like MMA does, and say "this is my krav maga" and it's accurate).

    The other is what we're discussing...the McDonald's fast food approach ("Krav McMaga") to combatives that essentially avoids the whole "you should cross train in judo, boxing, sambo...swimming to be a good H2H fighter" issue. Casually avoiding everything that made Krav's founder a respected martial artist.

    The Israeli military seems to have put a lot of emphasis into building up the rep of the second Krav Maga, and there follow all the even further watered down "civ versions".

    If people just cross trained a number of composite alive arts and called it "Krav", i.e. Omega...hey, the Hebrew fits! The English version of this would be if you taught boxing, judo, and wrestling in a single school and called it "Fighting School".

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Tzadok View Post
    Not racist. Just true.
    But definitely ironic, since the martial arts that Krav's founder knew and used in fighting AREN'T what they train in most Krav schools today.

    People show up for Angus steak, and they get chicken nuggets.

  5. #65
    goodlun's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    But will the Krav protect you from this?

    Of the single rapier fight between valiant men, having both skill, he that is the best wrestler, or if neither of them can wrestle, the strongest man most commonly kills the other, or leaves him at his mercy.
    –George Silver, Paradoxes of Defence

  6. #66
    ermghoti's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Tzadok View Post

    Notice the MMA guy just has to take them to the ground to dominate. Then he gets told "don't take it to the ground, we train our people to never go the ground."
    "Stop doing the thing that we, the reality-based fighters, are absolutely helpless to defend against."

    Also, I like the chick at 6:50 or so showing the class how to drop their hands while punching. I don't have my speakers on, but I assume she's saying, "no, lower, like below your armpit. Like this. Expose your entire head. THE ENTIRE HEAD, JEREMY."
    "Systema, which means, 'the system'..."

    Quote Originally Posted by strikistanian View Post
    DROP SEIONAGI ************! Except I don't know Judo, so it doesn't work, and he takes my back.
    Quote Originally Posted by Devil
    Why is it so goddamn hard to find a video of it? I've seen videos I'm pretty sure are alien spacecraft. But still no good Krav.
    Quote Originally Posted by Plasma
    At the point, I must act! You see my rashguard saids "Jiu Jitsu vs The World" and "The World" was standing in front me teaching Anti-Grappling in a school I help run.
    [quote=SoulMechanic]Thank you, not dying really rewarding in more ways than I can express.[/[quote]

  7. #67
    BKR's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ermghoti View Post
    "Stop doing the thing that we, the reality-based fighters, are absolutely helpless to defend against."

    Also, I like the chick at 6:50 or so showing the class how to drop their hands while punching. I don't have my speakers on, but I assume she's saying, "no, lower, like below your armpit. Like this. Expose your entire head. THE ENTIRE HEAD, JEREMY."
    So much BS when all he needed to do was challenger her, take her down, and play-slap her in the head a few times...
    Falling for Judo since 1980

    "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

    "The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

    "Banning BKR is like kicking a Quokka. It's foolishness of the first order." - Raycetpfl

  8. #68
    goodlun's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    So much BS when all he needed to do was challenger her, take her down, and play-slap her in the head a few times...
    That wouldn't have made for good TV.
    Of the single rapier fight between valiant men, having both skill, he that is the best wrestler, or if neither of them can wrestle, the strongest man most commonly kills the other, or leaves him at his mercy.
    –George Silver, Paradoxes of Defence

  9. #69
    BKR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    That wouldn't have made for good TV.
    Well, they could have built it up to that point, at least.

    She wouldn't be so deluded if she actually did some Judo or Sambo, instead of that crappy-looking pseudo kick-boxing.
    Falling for Judo since 1980

    "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

    "The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

    "Banning BKR is like kicking a Quokka. It's foolishness of the first order." - Raycetpfl

  10. #70

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    But will the Krav protect you from this?

    It will because one of its fundamentals is esentially running away from your problems.

    I went to terrorism survival seminar. Went in with an open mind (when i was a km student). Thought id learn **** about navigating through chaos, finding exits and not getting funnelled like sheep. Just some survival tips from an expert in the field. What i got was a sure way to get myself killed. Ran through multiple scenarios where basically the whole thing was based around mob mentality.

    Guy running the show was saying 'dont be sheep. So soon as we seen an 'attacker' with a gun shooting people we had to all rush him and bring him down. 2-3 persons dying is better than 10. I get that, great in theory but in order for it to work everyone needs that mind set.

    When a public attack happens, according to footage everyone runs for their life. Those with that mindset are unlikely to be around each other in great numbers. But then again more suicide bombings would happen if the mob mentality started work.

    This is the kind of false security you will get from krav. One of the most absurd things i learn was: if you parry a stab attempt or block the arm (google 360 defence) and counter with groin kick or throat punch run away. My question was "what if they chase you" response "always leave when you can, if you have to deal with them again then keep doing it". I dont like being stabbed in the back or cornered with a person with a knife who i just really pissed off.

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