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  1. #11
    goodlun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    I get reports back from my teenage judoka who compete at national level about dirty tricks all the time...

    Saw a shining example done to one of my students at Canadian Nationals a couple of weeks ago...

    And that's Judo, the "mutual welfare and benefit" combat sport, LOL!
    I had a BJJ coach that covered every dirty heel hook their was, ones that could be hidden from the refs, all the dirty little ways to get out of them, ways to get other people to DQ themselves.
    All that jazz.
    Not to encourage us to do that stuff but to look out for it.
    You can get seriously hurt if your not paying attention.
    Of the single rapier fight between valiant men, having both skill, he that is the best wrestler, or if neither of them can wrestle, the strongest man most commonly kills the other, or leaves him at his mercy.
    –George Silver, Paradoxes of Defence

  2. #12
    BKR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    I had a BJJ coach that covered every dirty heel hook their was, ones that could be hidden from the refs, all the dirty little ways to get out of them, ways to get other people to DQ themselves.
    All that jazz.
    Not to encourage us to do that stuff but to look out for it.
    You can get seriously hurt if your not paying attention.
    Agreed...you have to see it coming for the most part.
    Falling for Judo since 1980

    "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

    "The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

    "Banning BKR is like kicking a Quokka. It's foolishness of the first order." - Raycetpfl

  3. #13
    Ded Moroz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cassius View Post
    I left this thread alone for a bit to see where it would go, but it is not really developing into a technical discussion so I am moving it to YMAS. I don't really know what the differences between special forces, police, and civilian Krav Maga are, but I sure am interested to learn.
    It can't be too different, the KM courses at Wingate are open to anyone with money, as are most of the Israeli military courses

  4. #14
    Raycetpfl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheAngryOrange View Post
    AcerTempest covered the gist of it but I wanted to add a few things.

    A few things to note is there are multiple versions of Krav Maga. I see you have BJJ as your background. The BJJ taught to police is a different version than the one done in competitions. It carries many of the same techniques and concepts but the focus is different because the goal is different. Krav Maga is the same with one for the military, police, and civilians. Each has a different focus though the civilian version, meant for self defense, is heavily watered down in comparison to the other two with a high emphasis on running away (since they don't need to arrest or kill the perp). So there is no way for you to experience that "seriously brutal and lethal martial art meant for taking out your enemy in the quickest and most efficient way possible" unless you join the special forces.

    Something Krav Maga has suffered is commercialization. It was that edgy 'dark arts of martial arts' thing when it came out, so a bunch of people saw an opportunity to cash in on the rising star and as a result we got a lot of McDojos in that field. Be wary that whatever krav school you go to actually does legit stuff and be wary that civilian level defense is not the military stuff that most people want when they get into krav.


    Onto your question. I'm afraid it all depends on the school. Some krav schools will have their practitioners duke it out after teaching them a technique. Some krav schools do do lie drills. They teach you a ground escape then they tell one person to escape while the other person is to keep them down there. But, many schools don't. They teach the technique on a compliant partner and call it done. And it's not just ground techniques. Knife defense, mob defense, and stick defense also fall into this category. Some schools, after teaching you a technique, will say: "Hey, here's a weapon (fake obviously). Go get him." Others will stick to compliant partners.

    Good civilian krav maga is good in a self defensive scenario but make sure you actually do a good one. Furthmore, make sure you tell your friend that there isn't a martial art in existence that will allow you to properly defend yourself without proper time, practice, and effort.

    A good way to bring it up with your instructor the need for live scenarios is through friendly discussion and 'what if' scenarios.

    So, overall, it all depends on the school. Some are started by scam artists who know they're full of crap. Others are started by the zealous students of scam artists who truly believe they are a human weapon. When I learned Krav we did sparring and live drills for just about everything we did. I've been bludgeoned by the stick enough times to learn that foam doesn't do much if your partner is swinging hard enough. But other schools don't do this at all and I've seen enough pseudo krav that makes me want to cry.

    Hope this helps.

    (PS: You mentioned rolling with your krav instructor. Something to think about is the dynamics of each martial art).
    You're a fucking moron.

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raycetpfl View Post
    You're a fucking moron.
    If believing that helps you sleep at night.

  6. #16
    goodlun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheAngryOrange View Post
    If believing that helps you sleep at night.
    I am sure your KM training helps you feel nice and safe at night.
    Of the single rapier fight between valiant men, having both skill, he that is the best wrestler, or if neither of them can wrestle, the strongest man most commonly kills the other, or leaves him at his mercy.
    –George Silver, Paradoxes of Defence

  7. #17
    goodlun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cassius View Post
    I don't really know what the differences between special forces, police, and civilian Krav Maga are, but I sure am interested to learn.
    Given Special Forces nor Police focus on H2H stuff at all I am going to go with marketing?
    Of the single rapier fight between valiant men, having both skill, he that is the best wrestler, or if neither of them can wrestle, the strongest man most commonly kills the other, or leaves him at his mercy.
    –George Silver, Paradoxes of Defence

  8. #18
    Michael Tzadok's Avatar
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    Krav Maga is the ONLY martial art that Israeli security forces are legally allowed to learn. Alternately to be a Martial Arts instructor in Israel you MUST take a combative instructors course through the Wingate.

    Now that being said if you get down into the nitty gritty of it you will be amazed at how little the Israeli Army cares for KM. The combat units in general have less exposure to it than US Army infantrymen do to MACP. The basic course in the Israeli Army is 10hrs long. The instructors course is 120hrs long. Funny considering you can be a Renzo Gracie black belt and still have to take a 340hr course at the Wingate in order to teach civilians. Even more intersting when you think that Yamam and several other professional units actually travel to Russia each year to learn combat Sambo under Retuinskih and the airport security at Ben Gurion learn BJJ. In short those people that have to use MA to defend themselves are finding loopholes in order to learn something other KM.

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    Given Special Forces nor Police focus on H2H stuff at all I am going to go with marketing?
    It's a pity we have to go from talking about MMA tactics to this. But, do you really believe the military has absolutely H2H at all? Or the police? I guess that interview with Rener Gracie talking about bjj in the police force was also nonsense?

  10. #20
    BKR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheAngryOrange View Post
    If believing that helps you sleep at night.
    What is the BJJ taught to police? We have cops at BJJ school where I train. They do what everybody else does.
    Falling for Judo since 1980

    "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

    "The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

    "Banning BKR is like kicking a Quokka. It's foolishness of the first order." - Raycetpfl

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