Page 1 of 27 1234511 ... Last
  1. #1
    Michael Tzadok's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Jerusalem
    Posts
    1,333
    Style
    Pramek/Sambo/BJJ
    8
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    The Church of St. Rigan

    So apparently, according to some, Rigan can do no wrong because Rigan.

    So that we stop derailing a productive investigation, I set up this thread where we can discuss and debate the various aspects of Rigan's infallibility.

    Let's start with this:


    Never mind grand master stay puff and no touch knockouts. Clearly Systema is legit because Rigan.

    Just so we know exactly what he is endorsing

  2. #2
    Mr. Machette's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    3,394
    Style
    FMA, Ego Warrior
    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Everybody has to make a living somehow?

  3. #3

    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    484
    Style
    Bjj
    3
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Systema is just action tai chi. There is no style on earth that i hate as much as that ****. The punches simply cannot be powerful. Swinging your arms only does so much, you need rotational force via hips and feet. All the training is in slow mo fully telegraphed. What upset me the most is the knife defence, it will get people killed. Systemas approach to everything is to absorb and move with a blow which is bullshit because we humans cannot move like water.

    Rigan says the breathing techs have value. I rather learn breathing techs through swimming and yoga at least that way id benefit from something else also.

    I learnt how to control by breathing and relax through baptisms of fire. By this i mean knee on belly into oblivion by purple belts for weeks on end.

  4. #4

    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Sarasota, FL
    Posts
    2,179
    Style
    Jiu-Jitsu, Judo,Wrestling
    Click Here to Visit My Business
    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I understand that Michael Tzadok is a Rabbi who lives in Israel.
    Michael has already made a remark, phrased as if to be the lead in to a joke
    referencing that Rigan is a Muslim
    (and Rigan really is a Muslim for those of you who did not know that).
    Michael has also made several cracks about the Catholic Church and Saints and all that.
    Now I know that there is some real tension between the Jewish people in Israel and the Muslim people that also co-occupy the same space.
    If Michael has a problem with Muslim people like Rigan, that is his right, but I don't want to get into the middle of it.
    If Michael has a problem with the Catholic Church or LDS or other Christians because they have saints or because of personal tensions he has, that is his right.
    While I also think it is fine that Michael is a Rabbi,
    As an Atheist, I find it ironic that Michael would criticize the woo factor of Systema, or the woo factor of no punch knock outs, or other people's favorite forms of woo.
    Because those of us who do not have any kind of faith in magic powers or invisible beings of any kind, like myself,
    don't find Michael's career choice to study his own favorite form of woo as a Rabbi
    to be any more or less woo in an Atheist's eye like mine than someone who chooses to be teacher in no touch knock outs, or does palm readings,
    or any teacher of other forms of study whose primary focus is the consideration of magic or magical beings.
    I totally think that people have the right to be Jewish, Christian, Muslim, Worship Trees, Believe in No Touch Knock Outs, or hold credentials to be professional teachers in those areas.
    As an Atheist who does not believe in magic powers, and who does not believe in invisible magical beings either, I view all of these things in the exact same light.
    I believe in tolerance if other people want to go there, study those things, or believe in those things,
    but I regard those activities with personal skepticism myself.
    Rigan is a Muslim, I am an Atheist.
    Rigan had something nice to say about Systema, I don't have anything nice to say about Systema (in fact I have nothing to say about Systema).
    But, I respect Rigan's right to believe in things that are not areas that I choose to believe in.
    Same with Michael.
    I totally respect Michael's right to have a credential or career choice to study the Kabbalah or the other writings about magical, invisible beings, or for him to think that someone could "stop the sun in place" or that someone could learn "no touch knock outs".
    I don't believe in any of those things myself, they are not areas I wish to make a career choice myself, and to me they are equally woo, and the people who practice "no touch knock outs" or spend a long time studying about invisible beings seem to have a big woo fascination to me.
    But to each his own.
    I totally have nothing against the people who believe in magic, I defend their right in my own country to practice their magical beliefs as they like so long as they do no violence to other people in doing so,
    but I have no belief in magical things myself, whether it is spaghetti monsters, or Gods, or no touch knock outs, or Systema.
    But, a lot of people seem to like those things....
    So long as they don't bother me, or use those things as ways to commit fraud on the public for monetary benefit, or use the magic instead of things like medicine or proper tactical and strategic choices during combat or emergency situations,
    how people choose to believe or not believe in woo, is their choice, and has nothing to do with me.
    In fact, it largely does not interest me, either way.
    Last edited by WFMurphyPhD; 3/23/2017 7:43am at .

  5. #5
    Michael Tzadok's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Jerusalem
    Posts
    1,333
    Style
    Pramek/Sambo/BJJ
    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by WFMurphyPhD View Post
    I understand that Michael Tzadok is a Rabbi who lives in Israel.
    Michael has already made a remark, phrased as if to be the lead in to a joke
    referencing that Rigan is a Muslim
    (and Rigan really is a Muslim for those of you who did not know that).
    Michael has also made several cracks about the Catholic Church and Saints and all that.
    Now I know that there is some real tension between the Jewish people in Israel and the Muslim people that also co-occupy the same space.
    If Michael has a problem with Muslim people like Rigan, that is his right, but I don't want to get into the middle of it.
    If Michael has a problem with the Catholic Church or LDS or other Christians because they have saints or because of personal tensions he has, that is his right.
    While I also think it is fine that Michael is a Rabbi,
    As an Atheist, I find it ironic that Michael would criticize the woo factor of Systema, or the woo factor of no punch knock outs, or other people's favorite forms of woo.
    Because those of us who do not have any kind of faith in magic powers or invisible beings of any kind, like myself,
    don't find Michael's career choice to study his own favorite form of woo as a Rabbi
    to be any more or less woo in an Atheist's eye like mine than someone who chooses to be teacher in no touch knock outs, or does palm readings,
    or any teacher of other forms of study whose primary focus is the consideration of magic or magical beings.
    I totally think that people have the right to be Jewish, Christian, Muslim, Worship Trees, Believe in No Touch Knock Outs, or hold credentials to be professional teachers in those areas.
    As an Atheist who does not believe in magic powers, and who does not believe in invisible magical beings either, I view all of these things in the exact same light.
    I believe in tolerance if other people want to go there, study those things, or believe in those things,
    but I regard those activities with personal skepticism myself.
    Rigan is a Muslim, I am an Atheist.
    Rigan had something nice to say about Systema, I don't have anything nice to say about Systema (in fact I have nothing to say about Systema).
    But, I respect Rigan's right to believe in things that are not areas that I choose to believe in.
    Same with Michael.
    I totally respect Michael's right to have a credential or career choice to study the Kabbalah or the other writings about magical, invisible beings, or for him to think that someone could "stop the sun in place" or that someone could learn "no touch knock outs".
    I don't believe in any of those things myself, they are not areas I wish to make a career choice myself, and to me they are equally woo, and the people who practice "no touch knock outs" or spend a long time studying about invisible beings seem to have a big woo fascination to me.
    But to each his own.
    I totally have nothing against the people who believe in magic, I defend their right in my own country to practice their magical beliefs as they like so long as they do no violence to other people in doing so,
    but I have no belief in magical things myself, whether it is spaghetti monsters, or Gods, or no touch knock outs, or Systema.
    But, a lot of people seem to like those things....
    So long as they don't bother me, or use those things as ways to commit fraud on the public for monetary benefit, or use the magic instead of things like medicine or proper tactical and strategic choices during combat or emergency situations,
    how people choose to believe or not believe in woo, is their choice, and has nothing to do with me.
    In fact, it largely does not interest me, either way.
    Personally I think you can believe in any type of woo that you want. I just believe that woo doesn't belong in martial arts. Religion and Martial Arts in my opinion should be kept separate. That is first.

    Second, your ability to make assumptions based on people's titles, or larger umbrella of belief is astounding. The word Judaism(like the word Islam) covers a lot of theological ground, from people who believe that the bible is all fables and allegories which bequeathed unto us a tradition of evolving morality and humanism that was advanced for it's time but antiquated now to folks that believe the sun goes behind a sky dome at night and the earth is 5777 years old. I'll keep where I stand on that spectrum to myself. Hey you already know more about me religiously than anyone in my BJJ club and all but 1 of my own Pramek students... Most of them don't even know that I'm a Rabbi, because like I said religion and martial arts should be kept separate.

    Now you had said that you thought maybe Rigan would have been religiously motivated to help Saucido because of Saucido's religious conversion to some form of evangelistic born again Christianity. I did reply that it sounded like the start of a bad joke. Reason being is that it demonstrates ignorance for the religious beliefs of both, especially Islam(though again Islam is a rather broad umbrella).

    Oh and claiming that I've made a slight on the Catholic Church... Nope. I would suggest that you take a comparitive religions course some time. There are numerous religions that believe in Saints and the infallibility of Saints. To my knowledge you have to be dead to become a Catholic Saint, so they wouldn't be one of the religions believe in the infallibility of living Saints.

    Maybe next time you can compose a come back that isn't so full of logical fallacies.

  6. #6

    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Sarasota, FL
    Posts
    2,179
    Style
    Jiu-Jitsu, Judo,Wrestling
    Click Here to Visit My Business
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Tzadok View Post
    Personally I think you can believe in any type of woo that you want. I just believe that woo doesn't belong in martial arts. Religion and Martial Arts in my opinion should be kept separate. That is first.

    Second, your ability to make assumptions based on people's titles, or larger umbrella of belief is astounding. The word Judaism(like the word Islam) covers a lot of theological ground, from people who believe that the bible is all fables and allegories which bequeathed unto us a tradition of evolving morality and humanism that was advanced for it's time but antiquated now to folks that believe the sun goes behind a sky dome at night and the earth is 5777 years old. I'll keep where I stand on that spectrum to myself. Hey you already know more about me religiously than anyone in my BJJ club and all but 1 of my own Pramek students... Most of them don't even know that I'm a Rabbi, because like I said religion and martial arts should be kept separate.

    Now you had said that you thought maybe Rigan would have been religiously motivated to help Saucido because of Saucido's religious conversion to some form of evangelistic born again Christianity. I did reply that it sounded like the start of a bad joke. Reason being is that it demonstrates ignorance for the religious beliefs of both, especially Islam(though again Islam is a rather broad umbrella).

    Oh and claiming that I've made a slight on the Catholic Church... Nope. I would suggest that you take a comparitive religions course some time. There are numerous religions that believe in Saints and the infallibility of Saints. To my knowledge you have to be dead to become a Catholic Saint, so they wouldn't be one of the religions believe in the infallibility of living Saints.

    Maybe next time you can compose a come back that isn't so full of logical fallacies.
    Oh yeah, I'm sure your woo is totally different than all the other woo out there.
    But neither religion nor Systema is high on my list to study, for similar reasons.
    You woo as you want to,
    I have nothing to say about anybody's favorite form of woo, because it is not an area of interest for me,
    Unless people start replacing medicine with woo,
    Or start defrauding vulnerable people using woo.

  7. #7
    PDA's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    London
    Posts
    1,537
    Style
    Underground Pit Fighting
    10
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    This thread is proof that BJJ is not above all the same cult bullshit that TMA used to be known for .
    (I know we've seen it before )

    This level of blind hero worship in the hope of getting an arse slap at the next tourney is painfully embarrassing.
    King without a crown

  8. #8
    Michael Tzadok's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Jerusalem
    Posts
    1,333
    Style
    Pramek/Sambo/BJJ
    3
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by WFMurphyPhD View Post
    Oh yeah, I'm sure your woo is totally different than all the other woo out there.
    But neither religion nor Systema is high on my list to study, for similar reasons.
    You woo as you want to,
    I have nothing to say about anybody's favorite form of woo, because it is not an area of interest for me,
    Unless people start replacing medicine with woo,
    Or start defrauding vulnerable people using woo.
    Yeah let's stick with your areas of expertise. So what type of athletic protector does Rigan endorse... After all you are so busy riding his nuts you should know.

  9. #9

    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Sarasota, FL
    Posts
    2,179
    Style
    Jiu-Jitsu, Judo,Wrestling
    Click Here to Visit My Business
    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Tzadok View Post
    Yeah let's stick with your areas of expertise. So what type of athletic protector does Rigan endorse... After all you are so busy riding his nuts you should know.
    I used to compete against the Machado schools when we would travel out to California for BJJ tournaments.

    I got see Rigan compete a few times as I was coming up through the ranks.

    I respect the Machado teams for the competitors they produced.

    Because they trained their American students to be fierce competitors,

    it forced all the other BJJ coaches to open the kimono to their respective American students so that the Machado students would not own the tournaments in the early days.

    The Machados also produced several of the first American black belts, known as the Dirty Dozen.

    The Machados, and their students, are my competitors, and I still consider them my adversaries in tournament.

    However, the Machado brothers are excellent Jiu-Jitsu competitors, and they raised the water for American Jiu-Jitsu in several ways.

    There is also a good chance that the current IBJJF ruleset kept kneebars legal at the brown and black belt levels because of the influence of the Machados and the Machado's next generation of black belts and their schools who competed in tournaments.

    I view the Machados as competitors and on mat adversaries that I respect as competitors and adversaries, nothing more, and nothing less,

    with the exception that I also recognize that the Machado Brothers did make a large contribution to the American Jiu-Jitsu scene in the 1990's that probably raised the waters

    for American Jiu-Jitsu across the board indirectly.

    So, if I see Rigan and his students at a tournament, I am likely there with my students, to try and beat the Machados, if I can.

    But I recognize them as capable, and I know some of their history as it relates to Jiu-Jitsu, especially in how Jiu-Jitsu was spread in the United States.

  10. #10
    Michael Tzadok's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Jerusalem
    Posts
    1,333
    Style
    Pramek/Sambo/BJJ
    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by WFMurphyPhD View Post
    I used to compete against the Machado schools when we would travel out to California for BJJ tournaments.

    I got see Rigan compete a few times as I was coming up through the ranks.

    I respect the Machado teams for the competitors they produced.

    Because they trained their American students to be fierce competitors,

    it forced all the other BJJ coaches to open the kimono to their respective American students so that the Machado students would not own the tournaments in the early days.

    The Machados also produced several of the first American black belts, known as the Dirty Dozen.

    The Machados, and their students, are my competitors, and I still consider them my adversaries in tournament.

    However, the Machado brothers are excellent Jiu-Jitsu competitors, and they raised the water for American Jiu-Jitsu in several ways.

    There is also a good chance that the current IBJJF ruleset kept kneebars legal at the brown and black belt levels because of the influence of the Machados.

    I view them as competitors and adversaries that I respect as competitors and adversaries, nothing more, and nothing less,

    with the exception that they did make a large contribution to the American Jiu-Jitsu scene in the 1990's that probably raised the waters

    for American Jiu-Jitsu across the board indirectly.

    So, if I see Rigan and his students at a tournament, I am likely there with my students, to try and beat the Machados, if I can.

    But I recognize them as capable, and I know some of their history as it relates to Jiu-Jitsu, especially in how Jiu-Jitsu was spread in the United States.
    Yeah, you've told us. Repeatedly, again and again and again and again. Because of that you believe Rigan can do no wrong and must be defended at all costs. Got it. Thanks.

Page 1 of 27 1234511 ... Last

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Log in

Log in