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  1. #11

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    The kids love belts.
    I am not sure they are really that useful though.
    Of course, as a child I wrestled and all the neighborhood boys boxed a little,
    so there is my own bias source.
    I have avoided giving my kids belts up until now.
    My older son just asked me what he would have to do to earn a grey belt in BJJ,
    so now I have to address it.

  2. #12
    Raycetpfl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WFMurphyPhD View Post
    .
    My older son just asked me what he would have to do to earn a grey belt in BJJ,
    so now I have to address it.
    I am not sure what your answer is but my answer goes something like , " It's hard to say... but your scrambles need work and my car needs another coat of wax before we could even talk about it."

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raycetpfl View Post
    I am not sure what your answer is but my answer goes something like , " It's hard to say... but your scrambles need work and my car needs another coat of wax before we could even talk about it."
    To be honest, I would like my kids to know the basics of wrestling, the basics of Judo, the basics of Gracie Jiu-Jitsu, the basics of boxing, and certainly the basics of shooting from a martial arts perspective.

    And, I place their martial arts training behind their academics, and I yield to when they want to play other sports.

    I would love for them to learn how to do other things too, like speak Spanish, play music, do practical experiments such as from science, building things, growing their own food, and learn the basics of how to dance with girls before they get to Middle School.

    Life is short, and there is a lot to do.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by WFMurphyPhD View Post
    To be honest, I would like my kids to know the basics of wrestling, the basics of Judo, the basics of Gracie Jiu-Jitsu, the basics of boxing, and certainly the basics of shooting from a martial arts perspective.

    And, I place their martial arts training behind their academics, and I yield to when they want to play other sports.

    I would love for them to learn how to do other things too, like speak Spanish, play music, do practical experiments such as from science, building things, growing their own food, and learn the basics of how to dance with girls before they get to Middle School.

    Life is short, and there is a lot to do.
    That may be a bit much for a gray belt. maybe split it up for yellow and orange too.

    In all seriousness you wouldn't be the first club that I know of to make life skills part of the curriculum for kids. At my local Atos club the instructors keep up with how the kids do in school, how they behave at home, and how they embody the 11 rules of the Martial Artist(basic good living philosophy like never give up, respect other people ect.). Those things get taken into account when they are considering promotions for the kidos.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Tzadok View Post
    Well according to IBJJF standards, a kid could get a purple belt on their 16th birth day. Brown by the time they are 18, then black at 19. I get that a 14yr old kid can't hang with a 24yr old man. I'm not sure that a 17yr can't. In fact I would say that given that Kyle Snyder won the Pan Am gold(granted Freestyle wrestling) when he was but 18, clearly there are those that are that young and can perform to level. Depends on the person really.

    You make an excellent point regarding kids belts. It's the mid to late teens I'm more ambivalent about.
    Using Judo as an example, 14 or 15 is the youngest I've seen allowed, in the USA at least. I think the USJF is 14 years old.

    IME, a black belt that young would be maybe for a teenage young woman who is able to compete with adult women, likely in lighter weight classes. A 14 year old boy who can compete with grown men and do well enough to deserve a black belt would be very unusual...certainly not at a high level of competition.

    Judo and presumably wrestling and BJJ are late-maturity sports. Judo has added u21 (and I think u23) because of that. Tossing 19 year olds in with full-grown 25 year old men is not a good idea at higher levels of competition.

    I looked up Mr. Snyder...can you say an outlier among outliers? Wow....
    Falling for Judo since 1980

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  6. #16
    Michael Tzadok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    Using Judo as an example, 14 or 15 is the youngest I've seen allowed, in the USA at least. I think the USJF is 14 years old.

    IME, a black belt that young would be maybe for a teenage young woman who is able to compete with adult women, likely in lighter weight classes. A 14 year old boy who can compete with grown men and do well enough to deserve a black belt would be very unusual...certainly not at a high level of competition.

    Judo and presumably wrestling and BJJ are late-maturity sports. Judo has added u21 (and I think u23) because of that. Tossing 19 year olds in with full-grown 25 year old men is not a good idea at higher levels of competition.

    I looked up Mr. Snyder...can you say an outlier among outliers? Wow....
    Yeah Snyder is a total edge case. Olympic wrestlers are usually in their early to mid thirties, with 25 being young. All about that muscle development and being able to hit peak. I give him a lot of respect, but there is no way that is normal. Honestly if there was a kid that good, and I thought he deserved a Black Belt a couple of years early, IMO, it would be best to send him to someone like Rickson Gracie or Rigan Machado or some other practically indisputable name to make the final decision. I mean honestly though you look at someone like Snyder, and consider all the youth wrestling programs just in the US... According to the NWCA there are roughly a quarter million kids partcipating in High School wrestling in any given year. Millions of kids have gone through US wrestling programs in the last couple of decades and only one Snyder.

    Anyway you cut it, kid black belts in grappling sports is just a bad idea. That vast vast majority simply will not hit that skill level in their youth.

  7. #17
    Raycetpfl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Tzadok View Post
    Yeah Snyder is a total edge case. Olympic wrestlers are usually in their early to mid thirties, with 25 being young. All about that muscle development and being able to hit peak. I give him a lot of respect, but there is no way that is normal. Honestly if there was a kid that good, and I thought he deserved a Black Belt a couple of years early, IMO, it would be best to send him to someone like Rickson Gracie or Rigan Machado or some other practically indisputable name to make the final decision. I mean honestly though you look at someone like Snyder, and consider all the youth wrestling programs just in the US... According to the NWCA there are roughly a quarter million kids partcipating in High School wrestling in any given year. Millions of kids have gone through US wrestling programs in the last couple of decades and only one Snyder.

    Anyway you cut it, kid black belts in grappling sports is just a bad idea. That vast vast majority simply will not hit that skill level in their youth.
    Rigan Machado wouldn't be my first choice for that.
    http://www.bjjee.com/articles/rigan-...r-celebrities/

    If you're looking for a teacher that demands blood sacrifice for belts Relson,and Rickson are the two that come to mind.

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raycetpfl View Post
    Rigan Machado wouldn't be my first choice for that.
    http://www.bjjee.com/articles/rigan-...r-celebrities/

    If you're looking for a teacher that demands blood sacrifice for belts Relson,and Rickson are the two that come to mind.
    Here we go. :)

    Just because the Great Rigan Machado has some people who make their living with their face who don't want to risk getting black eyes during their film shoots,

    does not mean in any way, shape, form or fashion that Rigan Machado is not eminently qualified to make promotion decisions.

    Rigan was taking his teachers, including Rickson Gracie, to task in tournament and training rolls as a black belt before either Rayce or I had started training Jiu-Jitsu.

  9. #19
    Raycetpfl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post

    I looked up Mr. Snyder...can you say an outlier among outliers? Wow....


    Yea...... you could say that. So he moved up to HW and met a 3 time national champ his first year at HW. He was the smallest HW in the National Championship Tournament.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by WFMurphyPhD View Post
    Here we go. :)

    Just because the Great Rigan Machado has some people who make their living with their face who don't want to risk getting black eyes during their film shoots,

    does not mean in any way, shape, form or fashion that Rigan Machado is not eminently qualified to make promotion decisions.

    Rigan was taking his teachers, including Rickson Gracie, to task in tournament and training rolls as a black belt before either Rayce or I had started training Jiu-Jitsu.
    Ummmmmm hold on there Doc. Jiu-jitsu promotion without sparring is a very controversial stance to take. I didn't say,"Rigan can't fight." I said he has made questionable promotion choices.
    Ed O'Neil rolled to get his black belt. Guy Ritchie and Paul Walker rolled to get their belts.
    The Dude FROM Hawaii 5.0/oceans 11-13 is also a black belt,he rolls.

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