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  1. #141
    BKR's Avatar
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    Anyway, back to the OP...

    It seems to me that an alternative to awarding kids black belts (and I'm talking combat sports that use dan-i system), BJJ, Judo, mostly, you have a separate system for kids, and a lower age limit for black belt for teenagers with specific criteria regarding competition results, technical skill, etc. If that is part of the culture, then the kids won't expect a black belt regardless of how long they have been training.
    Falling for Judo since 1980

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  2. #142
    It is Fake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    So, if a kid is not "smart" (and you don't have to be very smart to graduate high school), why go to college, and further, how is said "not smart" kid going to graduate college on a athletic scholarship.

    Yeah, I know, it happens all the time, right... I've seen it myself...

    You see the disconnect?
    Money and a way out.
    Heard of this guy?
    John Urshel

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Urschel
    Urschel has bachelor's and master's degrees in mathematics from Penn State and is pursuing a Ph.D. in mathematics from MIT.[3][4] He has published peer-reviewed articles in mathematics
    I didn't, until I caught him in a random episode of Real Sports. Show me where anybody effectively pushes or celebrates the family guy who works 9 to 5 and makes 35K to 60K successfully raising a family. You know, outside of alcohol and car commercials. What you see is Kevin Durant making MILLIONS being marketed. Here's the problem, everyone should have the opportunity to go, not everyone should go. Goes back to what I said in another thread about everything being equal has dumbed down America. College should be sold as one of many ways to live, not the pinnacle of achievement. People still go to 4-5 year Universities for nursing when, you can attend a Community college for half or less of the cost. Trade schools, tech schools and certificates are not sold in the educational system. When I was young, they were looked down on. It is slightly better, but earning your associates is only good if you "take the next step." IMO, at some point the Universities colluded with schools to push enrollment up.
    Last edited by It is Fake; 2/24/2017 1:19pm at .

  3. #143
    BKR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    Money and a way out.
    Heard of this guy?
    John Urshel

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Urschel
    I didn't, until I caught him in a random episode of Real Sports. Show me where anybody effectively pushes or celebrates the family guy who works 9 to 5 and makes 35K to 60K successfully raising a family. You know, outside of alcohol and car commercials. What you see is Kevin Durant making MILLIONS being marketed. Here's the problem, everyone should have the opportunity to go, not everyone should go. Goes back to what I said in another thread about everything being equal has dumbed down America. College should be sold as one of many ways to live, not the pinnacle of achievement. People still go to 4-5 year Universities for nursing when, you can attend a Community college for half or less of the cost. Trade schools, tech schools and certificates are not sold in the educational system. When I was young, they were looked down on. It is slightly better, but earning your associates is only good if you "take the next step." IMO, at some point the Universities colluded with schools to push enrollment up.
    No, never heard of him. Amazing man, for sure.

    I hear you...way to moderate success by working hard and being smart with your money is not celebrated in the media or anyplace else.

    Because the media is all about making money...which ties into our (and I mean bullshido.net) discussions about politics as well...media is a commercial enterprise, quiet success does not sell advertising, neither does being the "guardians of democracy" by itself. Instead the media/press sell the glamorous lifestyle of rich entertainment stars as what is to be aspired to.

    I agree that everyone should have opportunity to go to college, or pursue post-high school education be it community/junior college/tech school in order to be able to make a decent living. Not everybody needs to do that though to succeed in life.

    I remember when I was talking to my Dad about going to electronics tech school. Personal computers were just starting to come into play (1981), and I was considering getting an associates in electronic tech, and then either going to work or electrical engineering or computer design/repair etc.

    He was fucking mortified...being a self-made man (and wealthy), had worked his way through college, then self-employed. He wasn't rude to me about it, but I could tell he didn't like the thought of it. I had a 4.0+ GPA, but had avoided taking any higher level math classes in high school, instead went to electronic tech school. Bad choice, as the teacher sucked, and unless you were interested in HAM radio, he didn't really care...

    Anyway, universities/colleges now pretty much money-making machines, be it academic or sports. Why else so expensive? Even state schools in many cases go that way. So of course they are going to market going to college as the ultimate that everybody has to do to be successful in life.

    I'll tell you who appreciates those 9 to 5 (or more) working parents who raise decent kids that grow up to be successful.

    Their kids...

    And in the end, that is what matters the most.
    Falling for Judo since 1980

    "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

    "The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

    "Banning BKR is like kicking a Quokka. It's foolishness of the first order." - Raycetpfl

  4. #144

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    Quote Originally Posted by Devil View Post
    I think one factor at play is that what it takes to be a champion at the highest level probably looks very similar to what it takes to be a broken, burnt out alcoholic with a bad attitude, bad knees and memory loss.
    Some of us resemble that remark.
    So, may your toast drop butter side down...
    Last edited by WFMurphyPhD; 2/24/2017 6:48pm at .

  5. #145
    Michael Tzadok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    So, if a kid is not "smart" (and you don't have to be very smart to graduate high school), why go to college, and further, how is said "not smart" kid going to graduate college on a athletic scholarship.

    Yeah, I know, it happens all the time, right... I've seen it myself...

    You see the disconnect?
    Because they are told they have to. Why are they told they have to? Because of funding. Schools get more funding if they have more kids going to a four year colleges, so the HS administration is busy telling kids that they need to go to college and avoid things like tech schools which may actually give them better prospects for a decent paying job in the current market. It's a bad system all the way up to the Federal level. Of course High Schools are going to want funding, because lacking funding they can't provide as good of an education or enrichment opportunities such as sports and band. Sadly they wind up selling kids a bad product to get said funding.

    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    I agree that an academic scholarship (full ride) is hard to get.

    Apparently, wrestling full-rides get handed out like Skittles...
    No, they are hard to get. Though they are more common in certain places and in certain schools. Wrestling scholarships can also evaporate with remarkable speed if anything as unfortunate as an injury occurs.

    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    Thanks for the additional information.

    I was wondering about the 4 years of eligibility.
    No problem. You will also note, as discussed in Pinned that many states are starting to limit eligibility for those held back in 8th grade. So that you would not then be eligible your froshman year, thus taking away said advantage.

    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    Thanks for the cogent reply.

    I am doing my own research, and it's eye opening, much more so the "holding back" issue than the highly competitive, unethical, dirty, practices of the recruiting and training (especially training).

    I have not seen "super senior" yet, but have seen the situation in some online discussions pertaining to wrestling. It also seems, so far, that holding kids back in 7th or 8th grade purely for the hope of physical advantage as a HS freshman is common, at least in some areas of the country, and maybe more prevalent in private schools.

    I see borderline abusive training for Judo athletes (teenagers), however, the entire system once kids decide they want to try to go "elite" track gets worse and worse. At least in Judo the brackets are by age and mass, not grade as in grade of school), so holding a kid back a year in school won't result in the "super senior" type of situation or a overly mature freshman or even 8th grader (depends on when the hit puberty...late bloomers one year won't help that much, nor kids who just don't have the genetics for grappling combat sports to be successful at elite levels).

    I get that poor, uneducated kids and their parents are looking for a way to escape that situation. Of course, I'm not poor or uneducated, I had educated, not-poor parents, and my kids have educated and not-poor parents (and step parents).

    What I do have is a concern for kids in sports, and not wanting to see them get ground up in the machine of the money making sports world (and that's what it is, even in college, as you know, and that seeps down into high school and lower in some sports).

    I'm glad your son got a scholarship, he's lucky to have good parents. The important thing is the education, and to use the system to get that, because most kids won't be making it to pro regardless.
    Again it goes back to what kids and their parents are being sold on. Essentially if you don't go to college(and a good college) you have thrown your life away. Is it true? No. Do the majority of Americans have the critical thinking necessary to not buy into it? No. As evidence to the latter I give you the Ninja craze and Ashida Kim. Look at the number of people who still think BJJ or Judo won't work in a real fight. So when coaches and such approach these parents and tell them that their kid has a golden ticket if they can just make the 106lb weight class their Froshman year, and so holding them back a year will be good for them, said parents honestly believe that they are making the best decision for their kid. After all everyone up to the Secretary of Education says that their kid needs to go to a good four year college to have a prosperous future.

    Yeah sure some states have 90+ lb weight classes for Froshman or JV teams. Sadly recruiters typically don't look at your Froshman or JV record. It may be a broken system, but I take exception to it being called abuse because as often as not it is parents making well meaning, informed decisions(based on the best information that they have available), for the best interests of their child.

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