1. #6291
    Nutcracker, sweet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MisterMR View Post
    While it's true that there are a lot of problems with measuring unemployment (not limited to changing the definitions), Submesenger didn't prove that the supposed changes disadvantaged Reagan: in fact he didn't even show that there were changes between Reagan and Carter, and even if there were changes it is possible that those changes "advantaged" Reagan.
    Never intended to. Do your own homework. I was just giving you something to look at which might poke a hole in your argument. For example, the fact that unemployment trended upwards during Carter's entire presidency, and trended downwards during Reagan's. I don't even have to look that up, it's right in your post.

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    Cruz Soto was also criticized by other local officials. Guaynabo Mayor Angel Perez Otero said that while other mayors have been joining meetings between, FEMA, U.S. military officials, and Puerto Rican leaders, Cruz Soto has been absent.
    “I’ve seen other mayors participating. She’s not,” said Perez Otero, according to The Washington Examiner. He added that, contrary to Cruz Soto’s claims, “We are receiving a lot of help from FEMA and the Red Cross … there is lots of help coming to us.”
    Angel Perez Otero is acting like a typical armchair politician, attending meetings like a boss... probably well supplied with cool, potable drinking water, too. Meanwhile, millions there are currently in the process of dying of thirst alone (that's what the "We're dying" on Cruz Soto's shirt refers to).. It's OK, Trump said...only a couple dozen have died here...you should have seen Katrina, now THAT was...etc, etc.

    Cruz Soto has been busy wading in waste-filled flood water, helping individuals and families, and giving occasional interviews to help bring help to San Juan. Oh and she wore a T-shirt, so political asshats including Trump won't stop trying to assassinate her character. "BUT! She had time to get a shirt"....shut the **** up.

    Did you catch Trump's embarrassing press conference today? He didn't even know what the hell was going on...Kelly is running everything for him and even had to shut Donald up at one point when DJT got totally confused about who he was speaking to. "SIERRA TANGO FOXTROT UNIFORM, SIR!!!".

    The money shot for today was Trump tossing rolls of paper towels to a select crowd of Puerto Ricans, as if it was a t-shirt cannon at a ball game. Yeah, nobody's wagging the dog here...

    Last edited by Ice Hole; 10/03/2017 6:22pm at .

  3. #6293
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    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    Angel Perez Otero is acting like a typical armchair politician, attending meetings like a boss... probably well supplied with cool, potable drinking water, too. Meanwhile, millions there are currently in the process of dying of thirst alone (that's what the "We're dying" on Cruz Soto's shirt refers to).. It's OK, Trump said...only a couple dozen have died here...you should have seen Katrina, now THAT was...etc, etc.

    Cruz Soto has been busy wading in waste-filled flood water, helping individuals and families, and giving occasional interviews to help bring help to San Juan. Oh and she wore a T-shirt, so political asshats including Trump won't stop trying to assassinate her character. "BUT! She had time to get a shirt"....shut the **** up.

    Did you catch Trump's embarrassing press conference today? He didn't even know what the hell was going on...Kelly is running everything for him and even had to shut Donald up at one point when DJT got totally confused about who he was speaking to. "SIERRA TANGO FOXTROT UNIFORM, SIR!!!".

    The money shot for today was Trump tossing rolls of paper towels to a select crowd of Puerto Ricans, as if it was a t-shirt cannon at a ball game. Yeah, nobody's wagging the dog here...

    I read that whole post as "histrionics are only OK when I'm politically aligned with the people engaged in said shenanigans."

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    Quote Originally Posted by submessenger View Post
    Never intended to. Do your own homework. I was just giving you something to look at which might poke a hole in your argument. For example, the fact that unemployment trended upwards during Carter's entire presidency, and trended downwards during Reagan's. I don't even have to look that up, it's right in your post.
    I don't dispute that unemployment went up under Carter, as his presidency ended in a recession.
    I dispute that unemployment under Reagan was particularly low.

    I didn't want to put words in your mouth, what you wrote is true, I was just pointing out that it isn't enough by itself to show that my argument is wrong.

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    By the way I googled this really rough assessment:

    Brief History:
    JFK - Coined the term discourage workers.
    Nixon - Created the bullshit manipulation seasonally adjustment.
    Reagan (the only legit change) - Classified members of the military as employed, which makes sense.
    Clinton - Took the discouraged workers and removed them from the unemployment calculation.
    http://www.usmessageboard.com/thread...tation.367286/

    Reagan's change results in a lower unemployment percentage, although probably not by much as military were presumably counted as "outside the labor force" earlier.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MisterMR View Post
    I don't dispute that unemployment went up under Carter, as his presidency ended in a recession.
    His whole presidency was a recession.

    Now I'm not saying that literally, so don't bust out the semantics. We had gas lines under Carter. It was that bad.

    Quote Originally Posted by MisterMR View Post
    I dispute that unemployment under Reagan was particularly low.
    You can dispute it all day, but it's a fact.

    How do you think wages rose during his terms?

    And remember; under Obama wages fell, except for the 1%. Their incomes rose. Go figure.
    A succubus is a Lilin-demon in female form, or supernatural entity in folklore that appears in dreams and takes the form of a woman in order to seduce men, usually through sexual activity. Religious traditions hold that repeated sexual activity with a succubus may result in the deterioration of health or mental state, or even in death.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1bad65 View Post
    You can dispute it all day, but it's a fact.
    No, it isn't. This is the civilian unemployment rate (thus ignoring the military) for the USA, as you can see unemployment under Reagan was quite high:

    https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/UNRATE


    How do you think wages rose during his terms?
    As a share of productivity (the correct metric) wages fell under Reagan (and in fact are still falling since Carter's times). The idea that wages rose (apart from the effect of increased productivity, that anyway wasn't better than other periods) is pure propaganda.

    And remember; under Obama wages fell, except for the 1%. Their incomes rose. Go figure.
    AFAIK wages rose under Obama, although not by much, because O's presidency started in a recession (as happened with Reagan).
    As the wage share keeps falling, wages rise less and less - this is implicit in what I'm saying about the continuous fall of the wage share. This trend started under Reagan tough, or perhaps under Carter, so the main fault of Obama (and of his predecessors) is that of not undoing Reagan's policies.

    This last point is worth repeating:
    Starting with late Carter (with Volcker) the Fed started a program of wage containment, because they believed that high inflation was caused by wages. They substituted interest rate policy to fiscal policy, they broke the unions (this was mostly Reagan's doing), and in general went for a more "austerian" approach to economic policy, expecially with regards to wages.
    In fact you will often read that the Fed chooses to rise rates when wages rise faster than inflation, but this means that they stop stimulating the economy the moment the wage share start to rise (wages have to rise faster than inflation for their share of the pie to rise).
    In pratice they are squeezing the wage share down (or perhaps letting the wages fall): this is not a conspiracy, this is the official policy of the Fed since late Carter.
    Unsurprisingly, the wage share keeps falling.

    But this is true for all presidents since Carter, and in facts Reagan was one of the mayor culprits because of his anti-union policy (and IMHO also because of his tax cuts).

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    "Tillerson reportedly described Trump as ‘a moron’ and was set to resign in July"
    Secretary of State Rex Tillerson openly referred to President Donald Trump "a moron" after a July 20 meeting at the Pentagon, according to NBC News.
    Tillerson made the comment in front of members of Trump's national security team and Cabinet members, three senior officials told NBC.
    NBC also said Tillerson was on the verge of resigning this summer and had to be talked out of it by Vice President Mike Pence."
    https://www.cnbc.com/2017/10/04/till...ys-report.html

    Just saying...
    Quote Originally Posted by ghost55 View Post
    Violence is pretty uncommon in clubs in this area, and the dude didn't seem particularly hostile up until the moment he slapped me.
    I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WFMurphyPhD View Post
    Slamming the man in the bottom position from time to time keeps everybody on their toes and discourages butt scooting stupidity.

  9. #6299
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    Quote Originally Posted by MisterMR View Post
    No, it isn't.
    I don't mean this rudely, but you have an answer for everything no matter how ridiculous the answer.

    The last straw was me pointing out Reagan won 49 States in response to your claims workers were getting screwed under Reagan, and you responded with some nonsense about him being slick or something to try and explain that telling fact away.

    Again not an attack, but you're a very ideological person bent on arguing and obviously not actually bothering reading and taking into account the other side's facts and arguments.

    You've also replied with about every anti-Reagan DNC talking point I've heard over my life in just a few posts.

    I feel I'm spinning my wheels and stuck in a battle of attrition, and that's not my game.

    I do say Thank You for the discourse, and I'm sure we will have further discourse. But I do ask you to be more open-minded to unassailable facts you may not like when we do.
    A succubus is a Lilin-demon in female form, or supernatural entity in folklore that appears in dreams and takes the form of a woman in order to seduce men, usually through sexual activity. Religious traditions hold that repeated sexual activity with a succubus may result in the deterioration of health or mental state, or even in death.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1bad65 View Post
    I don't mean this rudely, but you have an answer for everything no matter how ridiculous the answer.

    The last straw was me pointing out Reagan won 49 States in response to your claims workers were getting screwed under Reagan, and you responded with some nonsense about him being slick or something to try and explain that telling fact away.

    Again not an attack, but you're a very ideological person bent on arguing and obviously not actually bothering reading and taking into account the other side's facts and arguments.

    You've also replied with about every anti-Reagan DNC talking point I've heard over my life in just a few posts.

    I feel I'm spinning my wheels and stuck in a battle of attrition, and that's not my game.

    I do say Thank You for the discourse, and I'm sure we will have further discourse. But I do ask you to be more open-minded to unassailable facts you may not like when we do.
    Yeah, I also think it's better if we stop this specific discussion here as we are going nowere.
    Thanks for the politeness.

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