1. #5391

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    Joe's claims of this being an evul Democrat plot to flood America with smelly fast-breeding papists notwithstanding, I don't really see a problem with overturning DACA. An illegal immigrant's an illegal immigrant. End of, as far as I'm concerned.

  2. #5392

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    Quote Originally Posted by hungryjoe View Post
    Sure. What's another 800k future breeders of which the majority will vote Democrat? How about some honesty to go with that compassion.
    I think the causality is the reverse: since republicans dislike them and try to kick them out, they will later vote democrat (if they end up with USA citizienship).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawarma View Post
    Joe's claims of this being an evul Democrat plot to flood America with smelly fast-breeding papists notwithstanding, I don't really see a problem with overturning DACA. An illegal immigrant's an illegal immigrant. End of, as far as I'm concerned.
    An illegal immigrant is illegal depending on some law that defines him/her as illegal. If you keep the DACA they aren't illegal, if you overturn it they become illegal.
    Basically their illegality doesn't depend on their actions but on whether you (USA citiziens) want to be more mean or more nice with them.

    (For clarity, we have similar problems here in Italy and I dislike this kind of "kick out the immigrant" policies in Italy too).

  4. #5394

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    double posted

  5. #5395

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pship Destroyer View Post
    I've got it...

    Soy Rogers.
    That one made me spit up my coffee. Well done, P.

  6. #5396
    BackFistMonkey's Avatar
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    Speaking of those awesome Trump appointees and best peoples and educating the poor and the need for legal oversight of Banking, Industry, Employment etc.

    "Betsy DeVos Refuses To Work With Consumer Protection Agency On Student Loans"

    The Department of Education will no longer work with the federal Consumer Financial Protection Bureau to root out bad players in the student loan servicing arena. Thats according to Education Secretary Betsy DeVos, who recently notified the CFPB that her department is ending years of formal cooperation combating student loan fraud. In the notice [PDF] sent late last week to CFPB Director Richard Cordray, DeVos accuses the Bureau of not living up to its end of agreements established in 2011 and 2013, by doing too much to hold loan servicers accountable.

    The Secretary claims the Bureau overstepped its authority by taking enforcement actions against student loan servicers and collectors, rather than simply passing those matters on to the Education Dept. to handle.
    Article
    I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.
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    1961-1994

    Quote Originally Posted by Jean Paula-Satire
    Never believe that the GOP and fellow bigots are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The bigots and Republicans have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past and that besides, they have already won

  7. #5397
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    Quote Originally Posted by MisterMR View Post
    An illegal immigrant is illegal depending on some law that defines him/her as illegal. If you keep the DACA they aren't illegal, if you overturn it they become illegal.
    Basically their illegality doesn't depend on their actions but on whether you (USA citiziens) want to be more mean or more nice with them.

    (For clarity, we have similar problems here in Italy and I dislike this kind of "kick out the immigrant" policies in Italy too).
    DACA was pushed through via executive action by President Obama in 2012. At that time it essentially opened the gates and we had a flood of young people, many with little to no supervision. President Obama's party controlled neither houses of congress. No law was written or voted upon. His time has passed and another holds the executive pen.

    I admire the personal courage of those willing to leave what they know behind for chance of a better life. Immigration made this country what it is today. Still, there are limits. My personal views on this issue are from a socioeconomic point only. Both major parties in the US have pandered for votes as they have one over-riding goal. Re-election. Failure to acknowledge the issue is ignorance at best or you're a proponent of open borders.

    We see this to some extent in much of Europe with the added twist of religion often being a factor in assimilation.

    There is no easy fix. The future should be a balance of compassion weighed against what's right for the citizens of the country.

    This issue was another factor in my pulling the proverbial lever for the Trump/Pence ticket.
    Last edited by hungryjoe; 9/06/2017 7:28am at . Reason: to add

  8. #5398
    BackFistMonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hungryjoe View Post
    I read the UK article. Nowhere does the NYT's article linked within give any White House official's name as thinking Trump may not be aware of the impact. I'm paraphrasing here. Nothing new for the NYT.

    Sources please.
    Well the source(s) is protected, it says so in the article.

    "The blame-averse president told a confidante over the past few days that he realized that he had gotten himself into a politically untenable position. As late as one hour before the decision was to be announced, administration officials privately expressed concern that Mr. Trump might not fully grasp the details of the steps he was about to take, and when he discovered their full impact, would change his mind, according to a person familiar with their thinking who was not authorized to comment on it and spoke on condition of anonymity.
    But ultimately, the president followed through on his campaign pledge at the urging of Mr. Sessions and other hard-line members inside his White House, including Stephen Miller, his top domestic policy adviser."
    I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.
    BILL HICKS,
    1961-1994

    Quote Originally Posted by Jean Paula-Satire
    Never believe that the GOP and fellow bigots are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The bigots and Republicans have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past and that besides, they have already won

  9. #5399
    hungryjoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BackFistMonkey View Post
    Well the source(s) is protected, it says so in the article.
    My point. Another, to us, anonymous source. Janitor perhaps. One person's opinion. You don't think there have been in depth conversations on the topic between advisers? The New York Times is hardly an unbiased source today. I forget and am far too lazy to take my morning coffee time to go back and look. Hard news or editorial? The line of distinction is frankly a blur.

  10. #5400
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    Case in point at the local level. Look to California in particular for a higher impact on the educational system and the drain that illegal immigration has on an already stressed system. Bold emphasis is mine.

    https://www.okcps.org/domain/96

    About OKCPS
    Oklahoma City Public Schools (OKCPS) is a multi-cultural district serving approximately 46,000 students. Our students are educated throughout 54 neighborhood elementary schools, 16 secondary schools, 2 alternative schools and 15 charter schools located in a 135.5 square miles in the center of Oklahoma.

    We employ approximately 4,600 administrators, teachers, and support personnel who serve a student population which is comprised of 2% Asian, 3% Native American, 15% Caucasian, 24% African American, and 52% Hispanic individuals.

    Additionally, 33% of our students are English Language Learners. Our students and their families represent 52 different languages; top two being English with 65% and Spanish with 33%.

    OKCPS offers 8 different special education programs across the district to serve the 15% of our population with disabilities or special needs.

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