1. #1001

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    Quote Originally Posted by hungryjoe View Post
    He chose from a list. A good choice I think.
    What say you?
    Quote Originally Posted by hungryjoe View Post
    What are your personal politics?
    What is a traditional conservative?
    Seriously; I ask as you've been in attack mode throughout this thread.
    If trying to correct the record when people spout hyperbolic, exaggerated claims and insult the integrity of US judges is "attack mode" then I guess I have been. LOL Mike T called one of the more conservative judges on the Left Coast a "Twit". Let's not start pretending everyone else here isn't in attack mode. :P

    On judges, it's quite clear Trump is trying to convince millions of his voters that the nominee will work to reverse Roe vs. Wade, by his own admission. That's some pipe dream bullshit and it will never happen even with a conservative USSC...because it still hasn't.

    Quite a few people are completely uninterested in the topic and are doing dumb troll ****. That's "attack mode" without purpose. That's just pathetic ****. Because of that I'm not inclined to share more personal stuff about me, since dumbasses are using it to crack dumbass jokes.

    If this were a social forum, I might share more about my personal politics. As it is, I regret ever telling anybody I was a freelance writer.

    Sorry.
    Last edited by Pship Destroyer; 2/06/2017 12:19am at .

  2. #1002

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wounded Ronin View Post
    What is a conservative? That's the million dollar question, isn't it?
    I'll bite. Dumbasses can troll if they want to.

    Broadly, a conservative is someone who supports existing law and social order, and limited government intervention into people's lives unless it's to provide the governance specified in the Constitution and related laws, such as national defense and other things the common citizens can't hope to do on their own.

    Fiscally, conservatives want balanced budgets and fiduciary accountability as opposed to exploratory spending or bloated, non-sustainable social programs, and as limited government regulation as necessary to protect the growth of free markets. Most, if not all conservatives agree on these things, if not necessarily the solutions. Typically, if you don't support all these things, you're considered a liberal by most people who consider themselves conservative.

    Socially it's very different. Conservatives are across the board like the rest of America, so you can't really say someone is conservative or liberal based on support for things like gay marriage or abortion. Plenty of conservatives support LBGTQ issues and a woman's right to choose. More extreme religious conservatives want Christian flags flying over state houses and want restrictions in the Bible included in US law.

    "Traditional conservatism" is Barry Goldwater, Ronald Reagan, and even (I hate to say it) Newt Gingrich. All of them were in opposition to the far right-wing political utopia suggested by the far right wing...Richard Spencer, Steve Bannon, and Evil Balki.

    Note I didn't say Trump...he's clearly not alternative right wing, and never was. He co-opted their message to defeat the traditional conservative GOP nominees, none of whom was as far right as Breitbart. They were all FOX News fans! LOL

    I think Donald Trump is a straight to the core liberal through and through, and I base that on his shitty budgets, bankruptcies, and who he trusts. And like many liberals, Trump will say ANYTHING to win points, or get what he wants.

  3. #1003

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Tzadok View Post
    It is a logical fallacy. As well as another dodge by you.
    You're wrong, it's not a logical fallacy to rely on the authority of actual authorities to make a claim. My claim is supported because experts support it. You can't use a logical fallacy of appeal to authority to dismiss the claims of an expert, unless you're also an expert. Therefore your argument here is invalid.

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Tzadok View Post
    Again simple logic. If something cannot be done, then it was not done. See humans cannot perform unpowered flight ergo no human has ever put on a red cape and flown like superman.
    No, I think you just didn't read the actual cases you're "citing", so you can't see the difference and why Yates would do that, but not this. Just like you didn't read my response about your HuffPo article.

    Go pull those court dockets and post them here Michael, if you're so sure they say what you claim. Note that whenever I make a claim about something in court, I post the ruling PDF? How about you try doing that, and citing exactly what you're referring to from now on. Be transparent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Tzadok View Post
    A Bush appointee does not make the court or the judge in question Conservative. Here are some sources that say it is liberal
    http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-...205-story.html
    https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...-split/435567/
    https://www.jstor.org/stable/2301196...n_tab_contents
    You are now trying to manufacture reality to meet your needs.
    Really, I'm trying to manufacture the conservative credentials of a Bush-appointed federal judge? Nice try.
    The federal judge Trump slammed on Twitter is known for his conservative views
    http://www.businessinsider.com/ap-se...e-views-2017-2

    Seattle judge who blocked Trump's travel ban was known as conservative jurist
    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/james-ro...vative-jurist/

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Tzadok View Post
    Now you are straight out lying. Let's start with the title of the article:

    Hmm... This is awkward.
    Yes it is awkward when you call people a liar for pointing out that you keep missing the key text. I've bolded it for you (again) and increased the font size, in case your glasses are still missing.

    Thanks for missing it a second time, re-quoting it, and then calling me the liar. It really solidified your credibility as a "professional educator". How about you pick the Constitution up and try reading it, so that we're both on the same page, before suggesting to me or this audience that the political clusterfuck that is this Order was reviewed with the appropriate level of due diligence..

    A Justice Department spokesman told The Huffington Post on Monday that that Office of Legal Counsel has traditionally answered the “narrow question” of whether executive orders are lawful on their face and properly drafted. The spokesman said that continues to be the case in the first 10 days of the Trump administration.

    “OLC has continued to serve this traditional role in the present administration, and to date has approved the signed orders with respect to form and legality,” the spokesman said.

    But here’s the key part of the statement: “OLC’s legal review has been conducted without the involvement of Department of Justice leadership, and OLC’s legal review does not address the broader policy issues inherent in any executive order.”

    In other words, the Office of Legal Counsel approved the language and basic legality of the executive orders, but did not look at the broader potential impact and potential complications. And DOJ leadership, which in this case means acting Attorney General Sally Yates and others, were not involved in the process at all.


    Curtis E. Gannon is the current acting assistant attorney general of the Office of Legal Counsel. Gannon, a Harvard-educated former clerk for Justice Antonin Scalia, previously worked as an assistant to the solicitor general and argued two dozen cases before the Supreme Court.
    Last edited by Pship Destroyer; 2/06/2017 12:27am at .

  4. #1004
    Michael Tzadok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pship Destroyer View Post
    You're wrong, it's not a logical fallacy to rely on the authority of actual authorities to make a claim. My claim is supported because experts support it. You can't use a logical fallacy of appeal to authority to dismiss the claims of an expert, unless you're also an expert. Therefore your argument here is invalid.



    No you just didn't read the actual court cases you're "citing", so you can't see the difference. Just like you didn't read my response about your HuffPo article.

    Go pull those court dockets and post them here Michael, if you're so sure they say what you claim.



    Really, I'm trying to manufacture the conservative credentials of a Bush-appointed federal judge? Nice try.
    The federal judge Trump slammed on Twitter is known for his conservative views
    http://www.businessinsider.com/ap-se...e-views-2017-2

    Seattle judge who blocked Trump's travel ban was known as conservative jurist
    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/james-ro...vative-jurist/



    Yes it is awkward when you call people a liar for pointing out that you keep missing the key text. I've bolded it for you (again) and increased the font size, in case your glasses are still missing.

    Thanks for missing it a second time, re-quoting it, and then calling me a liar. It really solidified your credibility as a "professional educator".

    [/B]
    Right so there was the OLC legal review which you have repeatedly denied has happened. Clearly you are trying to troll at this point. See no point in carrying on with you while you continue to deny facts. Honestly you are as bad as Alex Jones, and have about as much substance to back up your arguments. Good day to you.

  5. #1005

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Tzadok View Post
    Right so there was the OLC legal review which you have repeatedly denied has happened.
    No siree, now go find where I said the OLC didn't review the order. I said from the beginning it hadn't been vetted by the proper authorities at the DOJ. Guess what? Reality matches what I said, and you've seen the outcome.

    I know exactly what the OLC did and didn't do. They definitely didn't consult the Attorney General on a matter that required her adjudication. He actually fired her for it days later. Had he consulted her on such a monumental Executive Order, she'd have told him not to. OR as your HuffPo article title suggested "Justice Department Said Trump’s Refugee Ban Is Legal. They Didn’t Say It Was A Good Idea."

    Clearly it was a TERRIBLE idea, which is why it's so weird you're a diehard supporter of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Tzadok View Post
    Clearly you are trying to troll at this point. See no point in carrying on with you while you continue to deny facts. Honestly you are as bad as Alex Jones, and have about as much substance to back up your arguments. Good day to you.
    Clearly you are trying to troll at this point. See no point in carrying on with you while you continue to deny facts. Honestly you are as bad as Donald Trump, and have about as much substance to back up your arguments. Gai Kakhen Afenyam.
    Last edited by Pship Destroyer; 2/06/2017 12:33am at .

  6. #1006
    Michael Tzadok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pship Destroyer View Post
    No siree, now go find where I said the OLC didn't review. I know exactly what the OLC did and didn't do. They definitely didn't consult the Attorney General on a matter that required her adjudication. He actually fired her for it days later.
    The OLC are constitutional lawyers, every one. They have no need to consult the Acting AG on anything. The article clearly states that the OLC did review the EO. Says so in the title, says so numerous times in the article and even names the specific Constitutional lawyer that lead said review. You are manufacturing facts.

    PS when you want to try and curse someone in another language, actually speak the language you twit.

  7. #1007

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Tzadok View Post
    The OLC are constitutional lawyers, every one. They have no need to consult the Acting AG on anything. The article clearly states that the OLC did review the EO. Says so in the title, says so numerous times in the article and even names the specific Constitutional lawyer that lead said review. You are manufacturing facts.
    Where's the fact I manufactured, again? You have yet to show any.

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Tzadok View Post
    PS when you want to try and curse someone in another language, actually speak the language you twit.
    I know quite a bit of Yiddish. Clearly, you're not really a Jew.

    Oh wait, I forgot you actually trolled a sitting US judge, too. Now you consider both Judge Robart and I "twits".

    I'm flattered, but you should reign in that chutzpah of yours.

  8. #1008

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Tzadok View Post
    The OLC are constitutional lawyers, every one. They have no need to consult the Acting AG on anything.
    This particular statement is worth addressing.

    No need to consult the Attorney General on a sweeping, 7 nation travel ban? Why even have an AG if you're not going to use them to review issues of national impact.

    I'd call you a dumbass, but that's the other guy's game. I don't try to upset or insult people. I just think that is an extremely naive thing to say.

    You're sounding like an apologist.
    Last edited by Pship Destroyer; 2/06/2017 12:43am at .

  9. #1009
    hungryjoe's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Traditional conservative is painting with a broad brush. We're all different, on both sides and up the middle.

    Me? I consider myself to be fiscally conservative and socially moderate. In a box? No way. Not a legal scholar but a history buff with great interest in this country's future for mine and theirs when they arrive.

    Pship - I can't be bothered to look up the actual post but it's been on my mind. You remember. Telling you to "get a job" was personal and beneath me. For that I apologize. I'd still be interested in hearing your personal views politically as we're probably not that far apart, despite your obvious hatred for all things Trump.

    and

    You really want to argue about the liberal bent of the 9th Circuit Court?

    and

    If ye be conservative, why ye so mad?

  10. #1010
    Michael Tzadok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pship Destroyer View Post
    Where's the fact I manufactured, again? You have yet to show any.



    I know quite a bit of Yiddish. Clearly, you're not really a Jew.

    Oh wait, I forgot you actually trolled a sitting US judge, too. Now you consider both Judge Robart and I "twits".

    I'm flattered, but you should reign in that chutzpah of yours.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pship Destroyer View Post
    This particular statement is worth addressing.

    No need to consult the Attorney General on a sweeping, 7 nation travel ban? Why even have an AG if you're not going to use them to review issues of national impact.

    I'd call you a dumbass, but that's the other guy's game. I don't try to upset or insult people. I just think it's an extremely naive thing to say.
    אל תאן כסיל כאולתו, פן תשוה לו גם אתה
    הוכחת להיות ממש יותר מכסיל, לכן גמרתי

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