Thread: possible fraud

  1. #1

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    possible fraud

    there is a martial arts studio in my hometown called:

    Wilkes Martial Arts and Fitness Academy

    everyone there claims to be a high level of many different things and yet nobody looks to be over the age of 30 something.

    the idea that they might be fake is from the claim that their chief instructor... and many others are "1st Degree Black Belt: Muay Thai kickboxing
    (Graded by Kyoshi Justin Boylan, head of the WKA in WA)"

    in Thailand Muay Thai is mostly a professional fight sport! There aren’t any levels or black belts like in other martial arts! The belt is in the ring!

    Those who join a pro Muay Thai camp do so to make a living! If you join, you train 6 days per week, 6 to 8 hours per day! When your trainer feels you’re ready for your first fight…you fight! No questions asked! It’s your job!

    By this time most boxers are offered a “praciat” (sacred armband) by their teachers or by the local monks! Usually the color red! That’s all! This is a Thai custom since ancient times, to protect the boxers (and in the past, the warriors) from harm and to give them courage!

    No colored belts of any kind or diplomas either! In fact they couldn’t care less!
    You win your fights, you make money you make a decent living! You lose often and soon you’ll be out of the camp!

    Now my question is why the hell is a Kyoshi Karate guy grading muay thai and who the hell gave him permission, it would be the same as a kung fu guy grading ballet. also where does this Mr Wilkes get the idea that there is a belt level in muay thai.

    I smell a fraud! EXPOSE HIM ADMIN PLEASE!!!

  2. #2

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    Hmm the website says this about the owner:

    "Upon moving to Perth, he quickly found a local club to train at, and over the course of 13 years he was graded to 4th Degree Black Belt. "

    That seems fair enough to me. Anyone with 13 years experience under decent instructors should be more than capable of running a kickboxing class.

    Granted, having belt system in MT/kickboxing is pretty goofy but whatever. Its not necessarily fraud of any kind.
    Last edited by judoka01; 3/22/2016 1:33pm at .

  3. #3

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    I recall a few years ago a MT instructor of mine was telling me about how he knew of a few MT clubs that were trialling the judo belt system in-house, so no, having a black belt, while odd, is not a smoking gun when it comes to fraud in MT

    What is more interesting is what a 25year old could possibly know about self-defence, and his 4th dan is by appearance in an in-house system, so while of questionable quality, I would hesitate to label him a fraud just yet.

    To OP: most admins (if not all) are US based, and the Aus based members are almost exclusively East Coast based, so your somewhat on your own in pursuing this.

    This isn't to say that I don't question the quality of teaching that I could get from someone the same age as me, it's just that you need to proved more evidence, look at the affiliations he is claiming and if they are disreputable then you have something.

  4. #4

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    True, a belt in Muay Thai means absolutely nothing and is not traditional, but there are organizations that award them. So while his Muay Thai almost definitely sucks, I don't think that constitutes fraud.

  5. #5
    goodlun's Avatar
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    You can have a Black Belt in many many systems that don't normally have them.
    Including Boxing, Kick Boxing, and Thai boxing.
    Its mostly a marketing thing.
    Now that being said I am dubious of anyone that would incorporate Muay Thai and point to TDK for their snappy kicks.
    [quote] freestyle martial arts system incorporates many styles. We use the strength of stances and effective bunkai (practical application) of Karate. We implement the sporty, snappy kicks and flexibility training of Taekwondo. Boxing is used for its clean footwork and technical approach on striking a target. Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu provides us with a ground based self-defence system, Muay Thai brings its effective knees, elbows and stand-up clinching, while Eskrima covers weapon based self-defence. However, if you’re only interested in one style, we have dedicated classes to allow you to focus solely on that.[/qoute]

    Speaking of which FMA typically doesn't have belts either does it?
    Black Red Belt: Eskrima

    I am not to sure how "Fraudulent" they are being but I highly doubt their program is well any good.
    Of the single rapier fight between valiant men, having both skill, he that is the best wrestler, or if neither of them can wrestle, the strongest man most commonly kills the other, or leaves him at his mercy.
    –George Silver, Paradoxes of Defence

  6. #6
    Permalost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    Speaking of which FMA typically doesn't have belts either does it?
    Black Red Belt: Eskrima
    Some of them do, others use other titles (Guro, Maestro etc). I'd be interested in seeing this guy's FMA.

  7. #7

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    Hi mate,
    A lot of Muay Thai schools are using a coloured singlet ranking system including WKA, most instructors are saying they are a certain level instructor by number eg Instructor level 3, or refer to themselves as a Black singlet level 2 Instructor. Some people like Mr Wilkes are using belt terminology because it sounds better and people will more likely understand the title 1st Degree Black Belt Muay Thai.

    As far as Justin Boylan is concerned he was legitimately head of WKA in Western Australia, but no longer. He had years of experience in martial arts but had a tendency to do a bit of RPL to people who hadnt gone through the ranks of WKA. (Cashies) This didn’t do them or WKA reputation an,y favours, hence your issues with Mr Wilkes.

    I think it’s more of a reflection on Mr Boylan, with people throwing titles around, I went to one of his BJJ seminars as he was promoting himself as a World Champion. A little bit of research showed that he entered a masters tournament in Brazil over ten years ago in the purple belt division with only one other competitor in his category, that being an older out of shape gentleman. So Mr Boylan had one bout of three minutes and emerged with a gold medal. So I probable wouldn’t be throwing the title of World Champion around unless I had won a gold medal in a high division with multiple competitors. So it is good to use this site and do your research first.

  8. #8
    PDA's Avatar
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    According to his website he is an 8th Degree black belt in BJC Muay Thai which I believe stands for : Bob Jones Martial Arts (BJMA).

    So it is the ranking of that organisation.

    We have a few similar orgs over here , some produce decent students some dont and they all usually came from some 70s TMA guy.

    He does now state that he has a black belt in BJJ which is easily possible if he was in fact purple in 2007 but I would still be interested to see who gave it too him as it is not immediately apparent.
    King without a crown

  9. #9
    PDA's Avatar
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    According to this:

    http://www.amahof.asn.au/members/dir...justin-boylan/

    He was promoted to Purple by John Donahue in 2004

    This also states that he was still purple in 2011
    King without a crown

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