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  1. #31
    King of The Island of Misfit Toys supporting member
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1point2 View Post
    We've been fighting this fight since the mid-twentieth century, with the publication of Ishikawa & Draeger's "Judo Training Methods". Look: there are so many useful and beneficial elements that come from strength and conditioning outside of class, with weights. It is simply parochial and backwards to think that a grappler should eschew the best training methods known to man in favor of cobbling together tools from what they find available at the dojo.

    There are all sorts of benefits of lifting a human being, and they excite me greatly. But judoka already get that in practice. The benefits of a predictable, stable, non-human resistance tool like a barbell, or kettlebell, or cable machine are many and varied. A professional combat athlete is either a stand-out genetic freak in a pool of genetic freaks (e.g. Herschel Walker) or should be developing their strength, power, and resistance to injury in the weight room with the tools that have proved themselves superior.
    Rotating lifting weights and lifting partners is a good idea.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by twan55 View Post
    So, two things:

    1) I was being rhetorical. I'm not planning on getting into any bar fights; rather, I was merely asking if my martial arts (Judo) training would help me were I to get into one. Basically, I go to Judo (and BJJ) because I want to be able to defend myself in case of an attack. I am 48 years old, and for pretty much all my life I've felt extremely vulnerable because I never knew how to fight and was always scared shitless of getting attacked and/or humiliated by some nasty fuckhead somewhere, somehow. The mere idea of having to fight someone just absolutely terrified me.

    But now, after four years of Judo and one year of BJJ I don't quite feel that way. I'm don't feel like some big-shot tough guy who can kick anyone's ass or anything-- not even close; I don't think of myself as a good fighter at all. But I do, however, feel less scared. I feel calmer now- exponentially calmer and less terrified. And although I'm still 100% a *****, I'm a much less frantic one, a much less "lost" one. If something happened now- if some guy in a bar (or restaurant, or subway car, or on the sidewalk) started **** with me and it was on- I'd still piss my pants, but at least I'd do so while trying to get grips for Tai Otoshi. So yeah I may be (sorry: am) a shitty martial artist, but at least I'm not mentally a complete basket case when it comes to fighting. A few years of training have given me a smidgen of peace of mind at least.

    2) Ben, you don't suck. I suck. You are not in the same hemisphere as a guy like me. Yeah, sure- Travis Stevens would throw you through the floor. Fine. But if regular Joe Toughguy came at you in anger and you truly had to respond, in all likelihood you'd break his spine. Seriously- you would do some fucking damage to pretty much anyone who seriously came at you with the intent to do harm. Me- I would almost certainly get my ass kicked by any guy that knew how to fight; only difference is that said asshole would possibly have a harder time of it now than against 2009-me. That's all. I am not a competent Judoka, nor am I a competent fighter. What I am is a person who is marginally better than I was. Period.

    You and I are not evenclose to the same; compared to me, you're Zeus.
    I suggest if you want to feel even better about self defense, you try to find some decent self defense type training. The reality of dealing with real violence towards your person or your family will be a lot more overwhelming than even the most intense judo experience.

    Judo helps: randori, shiai, having the experience of dealing with physical combat, even in that limited manner.

    Zeus, LOL, you are going for the hyperbole there, for sure. The way my back feels right now my 12 year old could hold me down.

    I've done a lot of Judo with big guys. Dealing with a big, pissed off guy who wants to truly hurt you is another world away in the scale of interpersonal conflict.

    Get some good striking training at least, where you spar and get punched/kicked etc.
    Falling for Judo since 1980

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  3. #33
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    One thing that is missing so far is the concept and practice of periodized training. Nobody goes all out all of the time. Competitions are known things, with dates, competition seasons are known, with training camp dates known months in advance. Nobody is lifting heavy 3 times a day all the time and surviving for long.
    Falling for Judo since 1980

    "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

    "The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

    "Banning BKR is like kicking a Quokka. It's foolishness of the first order." - Raycetpfl

  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raycetpfl View Post
    "The fact is the people that are good and can fight at the level you want train full time, 8 hours a day, technique, strength and conditioning"

    Without steroids that's not possible. Otherwise youre counting just being "in" the gym as training.
    4.5 hours a day 4-5 days a week is about the maximum unless you're just an absolute physical anomaly and you would still probably end up with mental fatigue after not long.
    If youre counting Spending you're time not "training" reading technical books or watching instructionals, and breaking down fights as training than that changes thing a bit. Making you're body able and your mind ready is good training. It's why people watch game tape. I would also add time in for meditation/restoritive yoga.
    Well, whether professional is spending 20 hours/week training or 40, that's still a lot more than your average person who goes to the gym/dojo for 2 hours a week and otherwise sits in front of the TV all evening. :)

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    Quote Originally Posted by notfromvenus View Post
    Well, whether professional is spending 20 hours/week training or 40, that's still a lot more than your average person who goes to the gym/dojo for 2 hours a week and otherwise sits in front of the TV all evening. :)
    Especially considering that plenty of said dojos spend a lot of time explaining things while everyone stands around, between short bouts of light exercise.

  6. #36

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    6th truth : the idiot that will attack you in the street will not be a Floyd Mayweather, Royce Gracie, Bill Wallace, or Mas Omaya. He is gonna be some spastic retard. To survive, all you have to be is a slightly less spastic retard. The problem with martial arts is it tries to be a systematic logical answer to an unknown chaotic threat. Unfortunately it is the best answer that you can come up with. Something like tennis will give you a slight advantage in a street fight. That is, a super great tennis player will fight better than someone that doesn't do tennis if all other things are equal.

    I think the best answer this vague nebulous chaotic problem of self defense is to take a whole bunch of different martial arts. Those chunner's and WTF'ers (love that acronym!) would benefit with some judo or MMA exposure. Oh, wait MMA is a combination of martial arts. And MMA'ers would benefit from exposure to some non sport martial art like jujitsu. The real jujitsu, not Gracie kind (which looks suspiciously to wrestling---not the pro wrestling bullshit) , and not the face covered bullshit kind.

    My street creds come from having a wild out of control fetish for asian women, being a skinny ass production supervisor, having been a candy ass college student working offshore on boats, having been a whimpy ass college student working in a shipyard, and being a dumb ass that still can't keep his mouth shut.

  7. #37
    King of The Island of Misfit Toys supporting member
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    The real jujitsu, not Gracie kind (which looks suspiciously to wrestling---not the pro wrestling bullshit)
    Yea..... those gracie guys are queers! Are they tryin' to **** or fight!?! I mean,japanese jujitsu consistently produces better fighters. That's just science.
    Amurite?

  8. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by laserleftfoot View Post
    6th truth : the idiot that will attack you in the street will not be a Floyd Mayweather, Royce Gracie, Bill Wallace, or Mas Omaya. He is gonna be some spastic retard. To survive, all you have to be is a slightly less spastic retard. The problem with martial arts is it tries to be a systematic logical answer to an unknown chaotic threat. Unfortunately it is the best answer that you can come up with. Something like tennis will give you a slight advantage in a street fight. That is, a super great tennis player will fight better than someone that doesn't do tennis if all other things are equal.

    I think the best answer this vague nebulous chaotic problem of self defense is to take a whole bunch of different martial arts. Those chunner's and WTF'ers (love that acronym!) would benefit with some judo or MMA exposure. Oh, wait MMA is a combination of martial arts. And MMA'ers would benefit from exposure to some non sport martial art like jujitsu. The real jujitsu, not Gracie kind (which looks suspiciously to wrestling---not the pro wrestling bullshit) , and not the face covered bullshit kind.

    My street creds come from having a wild out of control fetish for asian women, being a skinny ass production supervisor, having been a candy ass college student working offshore on boats, having been a whimpy ass college student working in a shipyard, and being a dumb ass that still can't keep his mouth shut.
    I'd agree that most people in a physical confrontation would have a limited notion of what the **** is going on. In my experience viewing and on occasion participating in such wondrous events, the lack of martial skill in an era of community exposure to mma and professional boxing is staggering in that they don't in the slightest attempt to produce anything looking like what may be done by professionals, my personal favourite has been the recent state of flying haymakers I've witnessed (ancedotal evidence as it may be).

    That being the case, many individuals' expectant rate of return from martial arts that is simply unrealistic regardless of the level of commitment or time put into martial arts.As such, I agree with the crux of Plasma's main point, that while the ideal for many pursuing martial arts/combat sports is to transcend the thuggish lack of skill into a refinement of technique and controlled violence, the realty is that few if any will ever achieve anything beyond being 'good' at one particular aspect of MA, not great, not a international competitor, just good, regardless of commitment. This will mean we won't be able to take out a multitude of spastic assailants like in the movies because life is not like that and we will never be able to achieve that level of ability.

  9. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raycetpfl View Post
    Yea..... those gracie guys are queers! Are they tryin' to **** or fight!?! I mean,japanese jujitsu consistently produces better fighters. That's just science.
    Amurite?
    Yes, one Juijitsu school in San Antonio, the guys liked working out with each other way too much. But you cannot deny Gracer's do really well in one on one MMA contests. Also they highlighted the effectiveness of grappling. Western style wrestling got such a bad rap from pro-wrestling. Too bad for the Gracer's that self defense isn't always one on one.

  10. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by laserleftfoot View Post
    Yes, one Juijitsu school in San Antonio, the guys liked working out with each other way too much. But you cannot deny Gracer's do really well in one on one MMA contests. Also they highlighted the effectiveness of grappling. Western style wrestling got such a bad rap from pro-wrestling. Too bad for the Gracer's that self defense isn't always one on one.
    I'm calling Holy Moment out in this one.

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