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  1. #11
    goodlun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ermghoti View Post
    He at the very least escalated a conflict with someone obviously physically inferior to himself, then initiated the most obvious violence. That's going to be difficult to explain irrespective of the resumes of the actors.
    I don't know if I would call grabbing a raised fist as an escalation. This woman wasn't exactly a dainty little flower either she had some heft to her.
    She literally threw the 1st punch mind you after he grabbed her other arm.
    All and all its a bunch of drunken fucking bullshit.
    If it where another guy that got hit most peoples reactions would be much more mixed.
    Of the single rapier fight between valiant men, having both skill, he that is the best wrestler, or if neither of them can wrestle, the strongest man most commonly kills the other, or leaves him at his mercy.
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  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devil View Post
    I don't really disagree with any of that. Again, I think he was stupid because he should understand the reality of the backlash that was sure to come and he's only hurting himself. On the other hand, I think that backlash is complete bullshit. It is based on emotion and not the law. He's fucked regardless of the legal outcome.

    Side note - if my kid were a college athlete in this kid's position I would kick his ass if I ever found out he stepped foot in a bar. Too many problems to be found in bars. Too many opportunities to squander years of hard work on some bullshit.
    I think the over-reaction is severe as well.

    Hell, how old is he ? If he's not 21 WTF is he doing in a bar in the first place... fake ID ?

    I agree with your regarding own children. He's in the cat bird seat and wants to go bar hopping, not a good idea.
    Falling for Judo since 1980

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  3. #13
    His heart was visible, and the dismal sack that maketh excrement of what is eaten. supporting member
    Devil's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ermghoti View Post
    He at the very least escalated a conflict with someone obviously physically inferior to himself, then initiated the most obvious violence. That's going to be difficult to explain irrespective of the resumes of the actors.
    She escalated the conflict at every step.

  4. #14

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Somehow, I think I agree with Devil. She essentially committed assault once she raised her fist and issued what I'm assuming (reasonable assumption I think) was a verbal threat. That's assault.

    He grabs her fist (ok, self defense) she swings (assault again, can be argued as self defense if she views his grabbing her fist as the initial assault, but this is an incorrect interpretation, IMO) and they are parted momentarily.

    A couple seconds later (short amount of time there, FOREVER in hindsight video time) he returns to the conflict and gives her a good, clean punch. That's probably assault at that point, due to the momentary lull in action. He had his chance to walk off right there, and unless this is a stand your ground state, he was probably legally obligated to take it.

    I can't speak for the state this occurred in, but in CA they are both in legal trouble. Or SHOULD be, were white knighting not ingrained in our culture. In a perfect world, everyone would remind them both they are stupid, maybe some community service, and everyone leaves with a clean record.

    Don't think that's how this is going down though.

  5. #15
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    Devil's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The main thing that irritates me here is that so many women expect to be treated like children if they decide to assault a man. White knights perpetuate that problem. Women are adults and any reasonable adult should expect return fire if they punch someone in the face.

    Equal rights. And lefts.

  6. #16
    goodlun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tramirezmma View Post
    A couple seconds later (short amount of time there, FOREVER in hindsight video time) he returns to the conflict and gives her a good, clean punch.
    What the hell are you going on about?
    He never "left the conflict" and returned.
    He got hit and returned the shot probably without even thinking about it.
    Then he left.
    He has a reasonable case of self defense in my book. She hit him 1st and could have kept on hitting him had he not returned the shot.
    Of the single rapier fight between valiant men, having both skill, he that is the best wrestler, or if neither of them can wrestle, the strongest man most commonly kills the other, or leaves him at his mercy.
    –George Silver, Paradoxes of Defence

  7. #17
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Some are reporting that she attempted a knee to the groin before the punch, but you can't really confirm or deny it from the video.

  8. #18
    goodlun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Permalost View Post
    Some are reporting that she attempted a knee to the groin before the punch, but you can't really confirm or deny it from the video.
    Well if that is true than I have 0 sympathy for her. Not that I had a lot to begin with.
    Of the single rapier fight between valiant men, having both skill, he that is the best wrestler, or if neither of them can wrestle, the strongest man most commonly kills the other, or leaves him at his mercy.
    –George Silver, Paradoxes of Defence

  9. #19
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by goodlun View Post
    I don't know if I would call grabbing a raised fist as an escalation. This woman wasn't exactly a dainty little flower either she had some heft to her.
    She literally threw the 1st punch mind you after he grabbed her other arm.
    Quote Originally Posted by devil View Post
    She escalated the conflict at every step.
    She appeared obviously impaired to me, grabbing a belligerent drunk is not deescalation, walking away is. He put his hands on her first, that broke the ice from a physical violence perspective.

    Quote Originally Posted by devil View Post
    The main thing that irritates me here is that so many women expect to be treated like children if they decide to assault a man. White knights perpetuate that problem. Women are adults and any reasonable adult should expect return fire if they punch someone in the face.

    Equal rights. And lefts.
    I would be saying the same thing if she were a 17 year old wobbling around with a fake ID and a case of alcohol poisoning, an amputee, a krav magoo, or anybody else that could not pose a credible threat.
    "Systema, which means, 'the system'..."

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    Why is it so goddamn hard to find a video of it? I've seen videos I'm pretty sure are alien spacecraft. But still no good Krav.
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  10. #20
    goodlun's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ermghoti View Post
    She appeared obviously impaired to me, grabbing a belligerent drunk is not deescalation, walking away is. He put his hands on her first, that broke the ice from a physical violence perspective.
    Given how crowded it was he might not have been able to deescalate by moving away especially with how angry she was acting and raising her hand like she is going to hit him. She doesn't look all that "impaired either" **** she didn't even go down with that good hit. If you watch closely on a big screen you can see where she tries to kick him after he grabs her hand thats some decent balance for being "impaired" no she may have had a few drinks in her but **** me if thats an excuse to threaten someone else.
    Of the single rapier fight between valiant men, having both skill, he that is the best wrestler, or if neither of them can wrestle, the strongest man most commonly kills the other, or leaves him at his mercy.
    –George Silver, Paradoxes of Defence

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