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  1. #1

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    Jab or cross in karate

    When I studied karate we were taught the standard boxing punches, and we also boxed sometimes.

    However, I don't recall such punches in kata, and don't believe traditional karate contains those punches. The closest I can think of would be backfist as a sort of jab, and reverse punch as cross.

    Can anyone confirm if they know of something along the lines of a strait jab in karate?

  2. #2
    Speaks Softly's Avatar
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    I'm pretty sure Wado Ryu has a straight-lead punch (basically a jab, with a vertical fist).

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    I have been taught them in my Kyokushin dojo, but I haven't seen them in any Kyokushin kata.

    Kata... it's a good moving meditation but honestly I think partnered drills and padwork/bagwork are better for actually learning how to fight. And even better than that is... fighting to learn how to fight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Evergrey View Post
    I have been taught them in my Kyokushin dojo, but I haven't seen them in any Kyokushin kata.

    Kata... it's a good moving meditation but honestly I think partnered drills and padwork/bagwork are better for actually learning how to fight. And even better than that is... fighting to learn how to fight.
    I bring up kata because it is my understanding that traditional karate was trained almost totally via kata. Kyokushin only dates to '64 (and started development in the late '50s), and according to my MA history book Japanese karate didn't spar at all until 1940.

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    As far as I know, all styles of karate include some form of kizami-tsuki (jab) and gyaku-tsuki (cross) in their kihon (basics). A strong 1-2 combination is pretty straight forward, and doesn't really need to be recorded in a kata for people to remember how to do it. Kata are meant to record and pass on more advanced techniques for dealing with specific self defense situations.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tetsumusha View Post
    As far as I know, all styles of karate include some form of kizami-tsuki (jab) and gyaku-tsuki (cross) in their kihon (basics).
    Kizami-tsuki is a lead punch but I wouldn't call it a jab.

    A strong 1-2 combination is pretty straight forward, and doesn't really need to be recorded in a kata for people to remember how to do it.
    A proper jab-cross has as many technical notes as most moves in a kata. It may be pretty straightforward, but for the most part at karate tournaments I've been to, the jabs could use some work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Permalost View Post
    A proper jab-cross has as many technical notes as most moves in a kata. It may be pretty straightforward, but for the most part at karate tournaments I've been to, the jabs could use some work.
    Pretty much EVERYTHING seen at karate tournaments could use some work :P

    I will say that I never said karateka will throw a jab-cross as well as a boxer. The subtleties involved in that aren't really something I would expect in karate. As long as they are powerful, efficient, and accurate, I would consider it "good enough" for self defense purposes. If you want to become a great puncher, you should absolutely take up boxing.

  8. #8
    BKR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evergrey View Post
    I have been taught them in my Kyokushin dojo, but I haven't seen them in any Kyokushin kata.

    Kata... it's a good moving meditation but honestly I think partnered drills and padwork/bagwork are better for actually learning how to fight. And even better than that is... fighting to learn how to fight.
    Partnered drills are a type of kata. Not the formal kata you have to learn for promotion, though.

    It's the same in Judo...kata is any sort of pre-arranged kind of training. So if you and your training partner both know what is happening before you do it and stick with your roles,then that is kata-a form of training, not just formal sequences done solo or together.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Permalost View Post
    Kizami-tsuki is a lead punch but I wouldn't call it a jab.


    A proper jab-cross has as many technical notes as most moves in a kata. It may be pretty straightforward, but for the most part at karate tournaments I've been to, the jabs could use some work.
    kizami tsuki does in my experience vary from a straight lead punch right up to a jab, depending on the style, school, and individual

    but I'll also agree most karateka are not the best punchers.. especially with uppercuts, there seems to be a tendency to extend the arm early which opens the face

    I and my school are probably biased on all of this though because we only really drill boxing style punches for sparring or partner training, because our head coach was a boxer and kick boxer for a long time; in addition we prefer kickboxing footwork due to the parallels in balintawak

    Sent from my GT-I9100

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    The standard boxing punches don't generally show up in kata, since kata is meant as a record book of drills for close quarters civilian personal protection, and as such tend to have a slightly different focus. They're like a mnemonic device. That said, any school that is teaching fighting (which is different from personal protection) had better include these fundamentals.

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