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  1. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeilG View Post
    Yeah, you have to take that fall. And yoko-gake which isn't any fun either. But I digress.
    You know, I've done Nage No Kata with highly skilled tori (I used to be a decent uke), and neither Ura nage nor Yoko Gake were bad at all. It's the training with unskilled/learning tori that is most painful.

    Not saying I'd like to take reps for either throw all night, though !

    The hardest fall I found, done with a skilled tori, was of all things Uki Otoshi. Man, that rattled my teeth. The deal was, the tori (a 5'1" female sandan) was really throwing me with true "otoshi" action...I wasn't jumping at all.
    Falling for Judo since 1980

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    "The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

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  2. #72
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    Last kata clinic I was at they were asking us to do yoko gake with a real hard chopping kind of foot action. Made for a very sudden, hard fall.

  3. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeilG View Post
    Last kata clinic I was at they were asking us to do yoko gake with a real hard chopping kind of foot action. Made for a very sudden, hard fall.
    I imagine so...
    Falling for Judo since 1980

    "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

    "The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

    "Banning BKR is like kicking a Quokka. It's foolishness of the first order." - Raycetpfl

  4. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeilG View Post
    Last kata clinic I was at they were asking us to do yoko gake with a real hard chopping kind of foot action. Made for a very sudden, hard fall.
    That's the way I've seen it demonstrated. I was uke for a few throws at a friend's nage no kata for his BB a few years ago, and that was one of the throws I did not take. We gave it to this skinny kid who's made out of rubber, because his falls look brilliant, and he takes the worst of them like it's nothing.

  5. #75
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    Whatever happened to Blackmonk?

    Last I recall, he was a new Dad...

    JNP, any insight?

    Submessenger?

    Other Austin Bullies?

    Content: I have found that although it is difficult to pull off what one would call a classical Osoto gari against the resisting opponent in randori or shiai,
    Learning the standard method of Entry is very valuable to develop the ability to do so.

    The feeling of the correct positioning of your body to do the throw is very evident in the normal version of the osoto gari entry.

    Having good control of uke head and upper body are critical to the success of the throw as is having uke pinned on the foot of the leg that is being reaped.
    Falling for Judo since 1980

    "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

    "The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

    "Banning BKR is like kicking a Quokka. It's foolishness of the first order." - Raycetpfl

  6. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    Whatever happened to Blackmonk?

    Last I recall, he was a new Dad...

    JNP, any insight?

    Submessenger?

    Other Austin Bullies?
    I haven't seen or heard from blackmonk in years, but I'll ask Naszir next time I see him, which should be in the next 3-4 days.

  7. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by submessenger View Post
    I haven't seen or heard from blackmonk in years, but I'll ask Naszir next time I see him, which should be in the next 3-4 days.
    Cool, thanks. I know that you were in Florida for a while before moving back to Austin.
    Falling for Judo since 1980

    "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

    "The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

    "Banning BKR is like kicking a Quokka. It's foolishness of the first order." - Raycetpfl

  8. #78

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    I've got a question on this one for my Judo Bullies. I may be mis-labeling my throws here, but this looks about right.

    My question on the Osoto Gari is based upon body position. Looking at the videos, I see experienced throwers getting more of an angle, and manipulating the uke's upper body toward the leg being attacked. I've been performing this more like a wrestling throw, and wonder if it's a valid variant, or just lucky that it works sometimes. I tend to line up chest to chest with uke, gently pushing away until I get a counter push from uke, then I yank them toward me suddenly with the collar and sleeve, while I take my penetration step. I then reap uke's leg, pull the sleeve toward that side, and use my collar grip to push uke backward over their now-compromised base.

    Is this no good? Should I be turning the steering wheel to get the uke's upper body over the leg I'm attacking?

  9. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tramirezmma View Post
    I've got a question on this one for my Judo Bullies. I may be mis-labeling my throws here, but this looks about right.

    My question on the Osoto Gari is based upon body position. Looking at the videos, I see experienced throwers getting more of an angle, and manipulating the uke's upper body toward the leg being attacked. I've been performing this more like a wrestling throw, and wonder if it's a valid variant, or just lucky that it works sometimes. I tend to line up chest to chest with uke, gently pushing away until I get a counter push from uke, then I yank them toward me suddenly with the collar and sleeve, while I take my penetration step. I then reap uke's leg, pull the sleeve toward that side, and use my collar grip to push uke backward over their now-compromised base.

    Is this no good? Should I be turning the steering wheel to get the uke's upper body over the leg I'm attacking?
    I'm no expert, but my osoto gari is focused on getting uke's weight on (edit: behind is a better word, here) the leg I'm reaping, with chest-to-chest contact. I don't pull his sleeve to the side, I pull it up, while my lapel grip "turns the wheel." I think it is more like vigorously pulling a slot machine lever. Pulling his arm to the side, I think you miss the armbar.

  10. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tramirezmma View Post
    I've got a question on this one for my Judo Bullies. I may be mis-labeling my throws here, but this looks about right.

    My question on the Osoto Gari is based upon body position. Looking at the videos, I see experienced throwers getting more of an angle, and manipulating the uke's upper body toward the leg being attacked. I've been performing this more like a wrestling throw, and wonder if it's a valid variant, or just lucky that it works sometimes. I tend to line up chest to chest with uke, gently pushing away until I get a counter push from uke, then I yank them toward me suddenly with the collar and sleeve, while I take my penetration step. I then reap uke's leg, pull the sleeve toward that side, and use my collar grip to push uke backward over their now-compromised base.

    Is this no good? Should I be turning the steering wheel to get the uke's upper body over the leg I'm attacking?
    What you describe is a variation on an entry or set-up based on action reaction, not a variation of the throw. The throw physically works the same more or less regardless of entry (the finish, at least).

    In the bio-mechanical sense (getting away from the traditional "kari waza" of Judo), Osoto Gari operates on the principle of a force couple.
    So, from Wiki...
    In mechanics, a couple is a system of forces with a resultant (a.k.a. net or sum) moment but no resultant force. A better term is force couple or pure moment. Its effect is to create rotation without translation, or more generally without any acceleration of the centre of mass.

    So impose two equal forces in opposite directions uke (head/upper body and lower body/leg), and rotate uke around his center of gravity, more or less. That's the "pure" throw.

    And, guess what, technically, this requires NO KUZUSHI.

    Anyway, classically, for kari waza (kari-=gari), you put weight on uke foot/leg, then "reap" it away. Ideally (and rarely) uke is standing on one leg, with his weight on his heel (which is round, so not much friction), then you "cut" it from under him while controlling his upper body with chest contact and good control of his head.

    Effective Osoto Gari requires head control of uke, one way or the other.
    Falling for Judo since 1980

    "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

    "The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

    "Banning BKR is like kicking a Quokka. It's foolishness of the first order." - Raycetpfl

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