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  1. #1

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    Why people call european/western ju-jutsu "japanese ju-jutsu"

    OK

    Seems that most ppl on t3h int3rnet call all these ju-jutsu for the Street -things "JJJ" or something

    But almost always they are eclectic styles developed from judo/karate (nowadays bjj, kickboxing etc too) and are not founded by Japanese ppl but f.e german, british etc guys

    Why is this?

    Is it a somekind of street thing?

    Internet thing?

    BJJ thing?

  2. #2
    BKR's Avatar
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    They originally learned stuff from somebody Japanese back down the line somewhere/some-when, and it got passed from whitey to whitey. Bartistsu would be a decent example.
    Falling for Judo since 1980

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  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    They originally learned stuff from somebody Japanese back down the line somewhere/some-when, and it got passed from whitey to whitey. Bartistsu would be a decent example.
    Yes but why call it japanese or even ju-jutsu for that matter

    Mostly the techniques that come from Judo are the only ju-jutsu connection

    Bartitsu is probably first "well" known style smth akin to this

    But there are many styles that have roots like in 70s, 80s or even later and actually originate in germany, britain or scandinavia

    Modern Japnese ju-jutsu styles exist too but as far as I know hardly anyone in reality trains them in the western world?

    In my logic (the street logic to be precise) i.e Koryu Bujutsu (when it is focused or at least has a significant amount of unarmed fighting stuff in its curriculum) is japanese ju-jutsu

    Judo is more or less japanese ju-jujutsu

    Aikido is (shitty) japanese ju-jutsu

    But "lets take few judo throws, some karate kicks, boxing punches and wrist grab/bear hug escapes" is not japanes ju-jutsu - its european or western ju-jutsu

    BJJ has probably more direct link to classical japanese ju-jutsu stules (via Judo ofc) than most of this euro-jutsu stuff but well what the **** ever

    Im 100% for - not against eclectic and hybrid styles/crosstraining but why ppl call some streetfighting/self-defense curriculum developed in england in the 70s "JJJ"

  4. #4
    submessenger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Losco View Post
    Yes but why call it japanese or even ju-jutsu for that matter

    Mostly the techniques that come from Judo are the only ju-jutsu connection

    Bartitsu is probably first "well" known style smth akin to this

    But there are many styles that have roots like in 70s, 80s or even later and actually originate in germany, britain or scandinavia

    Modern Japnese ju-jutsu styles exist too but as far as I know hardly anyone in reality trains them in the western world?

    In my logic (the street logic to be precise) i.e Koryu Bujutsu (when it is focused or at least has a significant amount of unarmed fighting stuff in its curriculum) is japanese ju-jutsu

    Judo is more or less japanese ju-jujutsu

    Aikido is (shitty) japanese ju-jutsu

    But "lets take few judo throws, some karate kicks, boxing punches and wrist grab/bear hug escapes" is not japanes ju-jutsu - its european or western ju-jutsu

    BJJ has probably more direct link to classical japanese ju-jutsu stules (via Judo ofc) than most of this euro-jutsu stuff but well what the **** ever

    Im 100% for - not against eclectic and hybrid styles/crosstraining but why ppl call some streetfighting/self-defense curriculum developed in england in the 70s "JJJ"
    Who cares what it's called? If it is effective, use it. If not, call it "wing chun," or "jeet kune do."

  5. #5
    BackFistMonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by submessenger View Post
    Who cares what it's called?
    Names are very important. It is all about the marketing ... I mean ancient lineage.
    How else are you suppose to know if it works?
    Test it? Hahahahahaha
    If it is effective, use it.
    Agreed
    If not, teach it and call it "taijutsu", "hapkido", "wing chun," or "jeet kune do."
    I totally see your point.

    the above quote may have been misquoted for clarity, humor, or religious freedom
    I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jean Paula-Satire
    Never believe that the GOP and fellow bigots are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The bigots and Republicans have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past and that besides, they have already won

  6. #6

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    It used to be called jiu jitsu, no prefix. With the popularity of BJJ, when you mention jiu jitsu, many people assume that is what you are referring to. We have now changed the Romanization of the word to ju jutsu, and still need to differentiate between BJJ and other styles. If you are talking to someone with limited understanding of martial arts in general, saying you have a black belt in Western ju jutsu won't make much sense.

  7. #7
    submessenger's Avatar
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    I'll go a step further. If the "art," isn't evolving to meet current challenges, then it should have an ancient weaboo name. Otherwise, we should just call it one of the following, as appropriate: grappling, striking, stick fighting, swordsmanship, MMA, etc. You get the point, right?

    English is the MMA of languages. Terms like caddy, brouhaha, and karaoke are assimilated from other languages. We don't call it "American Nihongo." We call it "English." Why shouldn't we use similar logic with martial arts?

    (edit) Star Trek solves all problems. When LT Riker is discovered/recovered from Nervala IV, he renewed his amorous affair with Troi. She was doing some sort of Klingon exercise, when Tom Riker (aka It Is Fake) shows up and identifies the move as tai chi chuan. Nobody really cared what it was actually called, because the device allowed the screenwriters to have Jonathan Frakes french-kiss Marina Sirtis on camera.

  8. #8
    ermghoti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by submessenger View Post
    I'll go a step further. If the "art," isn't evolving to meet current challenges, then it should have an ancient weaboo name. Otherwise, we should just call it one of the following, as appropriate: grappling, striking, stick fighting, swordsmanship, MMA, etc. You get the point, right?

    English is the MMA of languages. Terms like caddy, brouhaha, and karaoke are assimilated from other languages. We don't call it "American Nihongo." We call it "English." Why shouldn't we use similar logic with martial arts?
    Because nobody is selling English to soccer moms and lazy adolescents.
    "Systema, which means, 'the system'..."

    Quote Originally Posted by strikistanian View Post
    DROP SEIONAGI ************! Except I don't know Judo, so it doesn't work, and he takes my back.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plasma
    At the point, I must act! You see my rashguard saids "Jiu Jitsu vs The World" and "The World" was standing in front me teaching Anti-Grappling in a school I help run.
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  9. #9
    BackFistMonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ermghoti View Post
    Because nobody is selling English to soccer moms and lazy adolescents.
    ... and that is where you would be wrong...

    Private schools are very popular.
    I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.
    BILL HICKS,
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jean Paula-Satire
    Never believe that the GOP and fellow bigots are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The bigots and Republicans have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past and that besides, they have already won

  10. #10
    submessenger's Avatar
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    Soccer is an excellent example. The traditionalists still call it "football," but the more apt name, soccer, derives from the ruleset "association football." Other rulesets resulted in, I believe, rugby and American football, but according to the interwebs, all were stolen from an ancient Chinese game, named cuju.

    LT just got scooped up on a DUI (he hit a cop car while drunk), and Beckham is trying to buy all of Miami, but neither would be considered a cuju player. Let's take a lesson from these guys, and stop calling **** what it ain't.

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