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  1. #11
    Bneterasedmynam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Quote Originally Posted by Permalost View Post
    Oh, THAT'S their problem: they didn't want to win! If only we could find a way to convince Olympic-quality athletes to WANT to win!
    Lol not exactly what I meant by that.

  2. #12
    BKR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Bonners Ferry, Idaho
    Kodokan Judo/BJJ
    Quote Originally Posted by Phrost View Post
    I got paddled more than a few times in middle school for shenanigans. Whether or not that's a good thing is up for debate (I usually laughed it off); it was the last gasp of the "it takes a village" approach to raising children, where teachers were seen as an extension of parents.

    That relationship does not exist between Coach and Student, and while some would argue that cultural differences apply, it's not the same thing. As someone who believes that consenting adults should regularly punch each other to such an extent that he created a website devoted to the concept, I completely disagree with this, and here's why:

    It doesn't motivate anyone to perform better. Beatings aren't about inflicting pain, they're about inflicting shame. And shame can be inflicted, where deserved, in a manner that's actually beneficial to an athlete.


    Yes, it's called "extra training". An athlete that screws something up should be made to repeat that task until they get it right; after class, during class, whenever, and being made to do so in front of his/her peers provides more negative feedback than just hitting someone.

    It's the same reason why the US Army stopped the "practice" of roughing up dirtbag soldiers. A.) It's easier (and cheaper) to just get rid of those who can't be trained, and b.) every screw-up is an opportunity for additional training; something that directly improves the soldier's performance.

    So yeah, as much as I'm against imposing regulations on things, there should be an open and direct discussion about whether or not countries that practice this type of training should be allowed to participate in the Olympics...

    ...right after we unfuck the Wrestling situation.
    The Korean Judo coaches are all whistling and looking the other way right about now for sure.

    Personally, as a coach, I don't like to use shame as a motivator, and can't remember the last time I did. In fact, I do not like think "shame and blame" is appropriate period as a way to deal with anyone.

    I do, however, know the temptation of doing so, as a coach. Some kids (and adults) came up in families where shame and blame were commonly used, so respond to it as a motivator. At those times I have to separate my ego and desires from those of the student.

    I just read, while sitting in the orthodontists office waiting for my boys, the story of Kayla Harrison and the abuse she suffered at the hands of her former Judo coach.

    Apropos of nothing

    Falling for Judo since 1980

    "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

    "The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

    "Banning BKR is like kicking a Quokka. It's foolishness of the first order." - Raycetpfl

  3. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Kibosh_Malarkey View Post
    So what is your answer to the Russian, Chinese, and Korean methods of 'Do it until you do it right'?
    I personally know a Chinese trained Ex-Gymnast who was so destroyed by their 'extra training' that she's half crippled in her mid 20's.
    Things aren't different in the other countries I've mentioned, where a dislocated knee or torn ligament is literally the end of potentially decades of work, simply because they can't keep up with the demands being placed upon them?

    In those circumstances, and in that environment, you're simply discarded as 'not being strong enough', which is the antithesis of sportsmanship.
    The point of extra training is to make an athlete better. If you're doing it to the point the athlete is getting injured, do you think that'd fit the criteria?

  4. #14
    TheMightyMcClaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Ann Arbor, MI
    I feel like shaming your athletes is going to make them waaay more likely to just up and quit.
    Additionally, beating your athletes would seem to violate the rules about no striking in Judo.
    The fool thinks himself immortal,
    If he hold back from battle;
    But old age will grant him no truce,
    Even if spears spare him.

  5. #15
    There's shame and there's shame.

    Embarrassing someone by making them stay after to do extra training, or dropping them to do pushups is vastly different than making them stand on a box in their underwear pretending to be a teapot.

  6. #16

    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrapper View Post
    Do we have the right to admonish a whole culture? Shouldn't they be responsible for their own evolution?

    That being said: Physically abusing people is wrong. Especially if you are in a position of power over them. Suspensions all around, please.
    Since when does one need to obtain special permission for admonishing? Some cultures are, as you have rightly discerned, woefully in need of review.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheMightyMcClaw View Post
    I think it's important to note, that, at least in this case, the practice of beating athletes is being admonished from within the culture. Particularly, it's being admonished by the athletes being beaten.
    Which might suggest that the culture is not in fact the homogenous mass of harmony and cherry blossoms the Japan Statistics Bureau so desperately wants it to be.

  7. #17
    bobyclumsyninja's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Kickboxing (student)
    A stern word was enough in class, to shame me into redoubling my efforts.

    Beating students is so much more about the teachers' egos, than anything to do with the students.

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